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James Brady (Sinewave)
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Posted on Monday, February 02, 2009 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hi everyone. I know someone posted about this before, but that was so long ago that I thought it best to start this thread.

I'm interested in possibly buying a Liquid Image MRG2.2 HMD if the price isn't too steep, I've been slightly obsessed with getting one for a while now after reading Mellott got one for $150 on ebay, but they seem to have vanished from the face of the earth. I would be very grateful if someone knows of where I might be able to get one, I've never seen an HMD that's affordable for me with such a great FOV.

Thanks.
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Tony Asch (Tone)
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Posted on Monday, February 02, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

James,

I have some MRG2.2s. Email me: tony at strayvr dot com
http://www.worldwide3d.com/
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James Brady (Sinewave)
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Posted on Monday, February 02, 2009 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Ok, I sent you an email, I'm definitely interested.
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Monday, February 15, 2010 - 5:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

I am interested to know if the display in these can be upgraded with a newer lcd panel. it would seem that since the FOV is good in these then if the display was a higher resolution these would be a lot better. i am not sure how these are made. i might be willing to buy one and mod it but would like to see some detailed pics of one of the units first
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Tony Asch (Tone)
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Posted on Monday, February 15, 2010 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Scot,

Email me for the details you are looking for: tony at strayvr dot com
VRtifacts.com
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Fronzel Neekburm (Fronzel)
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Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

What i regard as the MRG2.2's main flaw is the lack of stereoscopy which was always my "killer argument" for wearing headsets. Or is there a trick to get stereoscopic vision on these?
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 4:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Well I don't own one yet but i would say if the display can be upgraded to a new lcd panel that has a high enough refresh rate you could mod some shutter glasses to work with it. I think anything is possible just might not be worth the cost or effort. it would be nice if you could install on of those lcd panels that does not require any shutter glasses.
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Fronzel Neekburm (Fronzel)
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Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Shutter Glasses within a VR Helmet? odd idea somehow. Did you ever try this? But anyways, i love the bulky design of the MRG. If i get the money i will buy one from Tony, just because the design i think.
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Tony Asch (Tone)
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Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Ok, as encouragement to all the modders and hackers in the room, I've published some videos detailing how to tear down and potentially modify the MRG2.2 on V-Rtifacts. If you then jump over to the "store" on V-Rtifacts, you'll find a FREE download of detailed tech. specs on the Sharp LCD, backlight, KEO depix filter, and pin outs for all the critical MRG2.2 interconnections and cables.

As someone who's torn apart a lot of helmets, the MRG2.2 remains fascinating. Aside from the LCD panel, there's really not much about this helmet that couldn't have been fabricated in a Victorian age backyard tinkerer's shop. The MRG2.2 is roughly a contemporary of the Visette Pro which incorporates hundreds of thousands of dollars in custom tooling, injection molds, custom plastic lenses, etc... In contrast, fabricating an MRG2.2 can be done with about $100 in tooling, not including the kitchen oven and vacuum cleaner used for the one thermoformed part.
VRtifacts.com
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James Brady (Sinewave)
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Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Awesome, thanks for posting this, I've been wanting to upgrade my MRG2.2 for a while now, I love the HMD, the only problem is the low resolution (and lack of stereo), not to mention the optics makes the screen seem a bit close. I'm not sure if they exist, but if someone could find a LCD monitor that could fit inside that has a 120HZ refresh rate (which is becoming more and more common from what I've seen), you 'might' be able to mod in a pair of Nvidia 3d vision shutter glasses for stereo.
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hi, I just ordered my MRG2.2 and I also have a wxga lcd panel and controller on the way. I will take pics of my mods when I get it finished. I am excited to have the large FoV and now a Hi Res display!
it took a while to find a high res 5.7 panel... i did find a 1.6" lcd with 1920x1200

almost forgot the 1.6" 4096 x 2160 panel

http://global.epson.com/newsroom/2009/news_20091109.htm
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/11/epson-to-mass-produce-worlds-first-htps-tft-panel/

:-)

(Message edited by thrawn5499 on March 03, 2010)
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James Brady (Sinewave)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Awesome, could you tell me the name of the LCD panel you ordered?

Thanks.
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hi, just got my MRG2.2 in today. It is pretty cool. screen is a very low res screen... I haven't gotten my wxga screen in yet to start the upgrade.. it is a hydis 5.6" wxga screen it has a active viewing area of 120mm by 75mm vs the 5.7 inch sharp that has a 114mm by 85mm (I think) the over all size of the screen is much smaller though and will require my to build up around the screen to get it to set inside the case correctly. I will keep you guys posted...

thanks Tony
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Palmer Luckey (Palmertech)
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Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 5:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Would that panel happen to be a HV056P100? I have been looking at buying an MRG2.2, ideally non-working, so that I can retrofit this spare WXGA panel I have lying around. 720p at 85 degree FOV would be killer! I have an enormous amount of experience working with small LCDs in general, this would be a piece of cake. Anybody have an MRG2.2 they would sell? Hopefully low price, working/condition is no object.
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hi yes that is the panel. my problem is the place i was buying it from has not shipped it or replied to any emails.... I did find another source for the panel but i cam trying to find a source for the lcd controller. I found 1 that will do vga input but the other one would do component vga hdmi ect. and was cheaper then the vga one i have found. a side note just for fun i made a small cardboard holder for my iphone so it fit in place of the lcd panel in the MRG2.2 i played a video through it I was blown away by the size and quality of the screen even though the iphone is still a fairly low res screen it was infinatly better then the stock lcd. good enough if fact if i could stream video into the phone through the connector i would probably use it and not spend the few hundred more for the screen and controller. though that Hydis panel should blow the iphone away. do you happen to know anything about where i can get a controller from?
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Palmer Luckey (Palmertech)
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Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

I bought my panel and controller from the same place: http://www.agilentpixel.com/product.php?id_product=127

On the forum I run, we are getting a group buy together for some 5.4" 640x480 LCDs with composite and VGA input, the entire driver board fits behind the LCD panel, and it is very, very thin and light. If you want to spend less, they should be under $60 shipped each.

Is there a large amount of chromatic aberration or edge distortion with the MRG2.2 optics? Wide FOV is nice, I just hope that it is not achieved at a severe price.

Another thing: Just how large is the viewable area of the optics themselves? As in, what are the odds that it would work with a 7" widescreen? 7" screens are far, far easier to find, and you can get 800x480 ones for under $100, I would love to make a tutorial for all the people with MRG2.2s out there that want to upgrade it.
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Tony Asch (Tone)
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Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Palmer,

The optics are nothing more than a glass rectangular desktop magnifier. Yes, there is some chromatic aberration and moderate distortion, as you would expect with an inexpensive magnifier.

A 7" screen would probably overscan the optical window, but the real issue would be fitting such a screen inside the MRG shell. Since the focal length of the lens is fixed, the screen needs to be a specific distance from the lens, and that location is inside the MRG housing.

See the videos on VRtifacts.com to understand the LCD mounting further.

If you're looking for a non-working MRG shell and optics, tag me: tone at vrtifacts dot com
VRtifacts.com
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Palmer Luckey (Palmertech)
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Posted on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Mounting it would not be much of an issue for me, I have a lot of experience with vac-forming, fiber glassing, and plastic fabrication. It would be easy enough to extend the walls of the MRG to fit a new screen, from what I can see, so indeed the optical window is the main issue. I saw your teardown and assumed as much about the quality of the lens, I just obviously hoped that somehow it would end up being "better" than expected. Is it glass, or acrylic? Glass is nice stuff, but in my experience, a well maintained, good acrylic lens beats glass in most optical characteristics.

I will fire you an email in a few hours, thanks!
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 7:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hi,

i would like to pick up Palmers question.

How large is the viewable area of the optics?

I guess it should be 100mm x 75mm, but it would be nice if someone could confirm this.

Greetings,

Sin
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Tony Asch (Tone)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

MRG2.2 lens has a clear window of 100mm by 50mm, magnifying a screen 114mm x 88mm.
VRtifacts.com
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Thanks a lot Tony!
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

FYI, i asked Jianbo of Vitrolight if he could offer the Hydis 1280x800 panel, and guess what, he could. He has them in stock and offers them for 150$ on Ebay ;)
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Palmer Luckey (Palmertech)
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Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Yep! I should have mine done in a few weeks, as soon as I get some spare time in early June. :-)
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Ku (Kudawg)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Philipp B, are you trying to fit that in the VFX1 shell?

@scott, how far have you gotten on the project?
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hey Ku,

there is of course no way that this would fit INSIDE the visor of the VFX-1 ;)

Other than that, im definetely going to use the display with my VFX-1.

I will post some more pictures soon, im making good progress.
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Ku (Kudawg)
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vitual-Research-head-Mounted-Display-TESTED-/190400162786?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c54bbebe2

Someone might be interested with this old beast, looks like the one Regis was wearing back in the day, also looks like those LeepVR lens..
FYI..

Ku
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Fronzel Neekburm (Fronzel)
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

...there goes my hopes for a bargain... Anyways, what kinda resolution might this be? I'd bet on the standard 263x240 or whatever it is or is this one of the later Virtual research helmets? Unfortunately the round plug looks like it wont fit into the standard Visual Research control boxes.
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Maxim Lysak (Mnemonic)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Resolution of Flight Helmet is 240x120, according to Virtual Research manuals. This is very old helmet from early 1991.

(Message edited by Mnemonic on June 01, 2010)

(Message edited by Mnemonic on June 01, 2010)
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Tony Asch (Tone)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Regarding Flight Helmet, Maxim is correct. More specifically, it uses two portable Sony LCD televisions with the cases stripped off. When Sony discontinued these TVs, Virtual Research moved on to two new designs: Eyegen and VR-4. The Eyegen was ill fated as it used a monochrome CRT and a spinning color wheel. The failure rate on the color wheel was unacceptable.

One other thing about the Flight Helmet. The LCDs are too big to fit side-by-side with a normal 2.5" eye spacing. Thus... you have 2 choices: 1.) setup your graphics sources to about 75% overlap, not the normal 100% overlap in most stereoscopic material, or 2.) Install prisms. From what I can see from the photos on this Ebay auction, this unit is setup for 75% overlap. Also the headphones are missing.

The video connectors are BNC - standard NTSC composite, terminated with 75 ohms. Other than the actual TV sets, there is no electronics for the Flight Helmet.

(Message edited by Tone on June 01, 2010)
VRtifacts.com
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Ku (Kudawg)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Tony, let me see if Im understanding this stuff!
when you say the lens has a clear window of 100mmx50mm are these in H x V? active area when they explain about the LCD lens? So is this the part that the lcd would mount up against in the MRG shell?

Now the Sharp is a 5.7" What were the spec's, 100x50

These 5.6" that everyone is talking about is like 121mmx75mm I think.

Now this magnifier is making the Sharp screen seem like a 114x88 size screen and making it seem closer to the eye's.

Im just trying to grasp if these LCD screens won't be tooo much of a hassle to fit and get working. I guess I'll wait and see what the PT has done.

palmerTech where are you brother!!!
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Tony Asch (Tone)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

By "clear window", what I mean is the area of the lens that you can see through, i.e. put a ruler against the lens surface and measure the width and height of the transparent part. For the MRG2.2 that clear area is 100mm horizontal and 50mm vertical.

The actual display area of the MRG2.2 Sharp screen is 114 mm horizontal and 88 mm vertical. This refers to the portion of the device that has pixels. The physical size of the Sharp LCD (info you need to know for mounting) is larger.

Complete specs. for all aspects of the Sharp LCD are available at: VRtifacts.com

The lens has several purposes:

1.) Magnify the screen image to produce a wider field of view.
2.) Allow the viewer's eyes to focus on the screen which is only about 3 inches away from the eyes.
3.) Allow the viewer's two eyes to fuse the single image (try holding your finger 3" in front of your eyes... you see 2 fingers!) This is done through prismatic correction within the lens.

The simplest way to test different LCD screen sizes (the area with pixels) is to print out a color image on your ink-jet printer that is exactly the size of your new LCD. Trim the printout to size. Put it in front of your MRG2.2 lens and see whether the image is pleasing.
VRtifacts.com
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

"The simplest way to test different LCD screen sizes (the area with pixels) is to print out a color image on your ink-jet printer that is exactly the size of your new LCD. Trim the printout to size. Put it in front of your MRG2.2 lens and see whether the image is pleasing."

awesome suggestion! I am still searching for a reliable source for a lcd controller for the hydis 5.6 panel.... does anyone know a place to get a good one? thanks
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hey Scot, what kind of controller are you looking for? I just know about 2 controllers, one which is very large but comes with all kind of connections available at agilentpixel, and the other one is a small (smaller than the display itself) controller with a simple vga connector from vitrolight (ebayseller). Im using the latter and im very happy with it!
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Hey thanks for the reply. I tried countless times to contact agilentpixel I even email his paypal email account. I never got a response. to be honest i was not sure he would even ship my controller if i bought it... I am not so worried about the size of the controller but I would prefer to have more then just vga input so I could easily hook it to other sources. I would like to be able to hook it to my 360 and my iphone (so i can use it traveling. I mocked up a 3d model of what I think i will turn my hmd into and it is a lot more mobile then the stock version. some of the design though depends on if the controller and power supply is installed on the hmd or if it is a separate unit
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Those are some ambitious plans you have there...but if you want to go mobile with such a beast you have to consider the size of the controller (and i guess overall weight will be a problem as well). The agilentpixel one is almost twice as wide as the display itself. Im very curious how your plans work out! Best of luck regardless the route you'll take!

(Message edited by SinSilla on June 02, 2010)
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

:-) what controller do you have Philipp also what lcd panel?
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

I'm using the Hydis HV056WX1 and the Controller from Vitrolight. You can see some pictures of the two units in my "Forte VFX1 - Disassembly Question" Thread.
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

I did a search on Vitrolight but I was not for sure which of his controllers you were using
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Oh i see, he offers them only bundled with the display. But you should contact him by e-mail and ask for the controller he made for the HV056WX1. I'm sure he can help you out!

http://myworld.ebay.com/vitrolight/

(Message edited by SinSilla on June 02, 2010)
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scot moore (Thrawn5499)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

thanks alot I will send him a message :-)
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Ku (Kudawg)
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Username: Kudawg

Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2006

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Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

waiting for the 5.6 with the 7in1 board from virtolight, update coming soon..
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Philipp B (Sinsilla)
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Username: Sinsilla

Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2010

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Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Oh you took the 7 in 1?

I guess you will be extendig the cables so that the controller will sit in an external box?
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Ku (Kudawg)
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Username: Kudawg

Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2006

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Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post

Not using the MRG, going with a differant design, the challenge will be the mounting of the screen. Might be a month or so depending on how things fit, im taking my time on this one, I'd like to make more, I think this concept Im using for the helmet should work well as it fits any size head and won't rest on the nose, ofcourse im keeping this a secret LOL

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