| Author | Message | ||
     Peter Wimmer Rating: |
I've started a project to create a list of 3D-capable projectors. All tests were done on a Toshiba M30 notebook with buildin Geforce FX 5200 Go graphics card, NVIDIA's consumer stereo driver and Stereoscopic Player. Here are the first results: Infocus DepthQ projektor (800 x 600, DLP, 1600 ANSI Lumen): 60 Hz: yes 75 Hz: yes 85 Hz: yes 100 Hz: yes 120 Hz: yes Benq PB8120 (800 x 600, DLP, 1800 ANSI Lumen): no Benq PB8140 (800 x 600, DLP, 2000 ANSI Lumen): no Toshiba TDP-S20 (800 x 600, DLP, 1400 ANSI Lumen): 60 Hz: yes 75 Hz: yes (color problems) 85 Hz: yes (color problems) 100 Hz: no 120 Hz: no At 75 and 85 Hz, the image of one eye looks geenish, the other one blueish. This is not caused by the shutterglasses because it is also noticeable when not wearing glasses. Toshiba TDP-MT500 (1024 x 768, DLP, 700 ANSI Lumen): 60 Hz: yes > 60 Hz: no Panasonic PT-AE 700 E (1280 x 720, LCD, 1000 ANSI Lumen): 60 Hz: yes > 60 Hz: no Sim2 Domino 18H (1024 x 576, DLP): no If you have tested other projectors, please tell me. I'll create a website and summerize the results so that other people don't have to test all projectors again... | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
I had already mentioned this: InFocus LP 650 (1024x768 2500 ANSI): 60 Hz: yes no other mode works in stereo ... | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
Another one (thanks to Werner Bloos for testing): Optoma EP739 (1024 x 768, DLP, 2300 ANSI Lumen): 60 Hz: yes 75 Hz: yes (color problems) 85 Hz: yes (color problems) 100 Hz: no 120 Hz: no | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Tried pageflipping with the Infocus X1 at 1024x768/60Hz. Cropped pic but works very well with amazingly no ghosting and slightly noticable flicker. However, I'm using a cheap Nvidia card and stereo occasionally drops out and the video is sluggish. Time for a new card. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Infocus X1a, DLP, 800 x 600, 1100 ANSI Lumen 60 Hz: Yes 75 Hz: Yes (slight color problems) 85 Hz: Yes (slight color problems) Color problems are not a major issue (to me). I noticed the color problems (one eye perceives a slightly different color than the other) can be swapped when tinkering with advanced timing options. Geert | ||
| ChrisC007 Rating: N/A |
Just to clear something up on this thread, I have just purchased an Infocus X1a projector. I have had it working in pageflipped stereo at 60Hz, 75Hz and 85Hz. As mentioned above, at 75 & 85Hz there is a slight colour distortion. However, if this is putting some people of buying this projector, I would just like to clarify that this colour distortion is VERY SLIGHT and is far less distracting than the flickering at 60Hz. Flickering at 85Hz is ALMOST undetectable, unless you are viewing in a brightly lit room, which is far from ideal for viewing 3D anyway! In summary, the X1a is ideal for viewing large screen 3D on a budget. If, however, you are a perfectionist, then save up and get the DepthQ. | ||
| Jorn Are Rating: N/A |
Anyone tried the benq pe7700? It looks like a good candidate... | ||
| Tim Rating: N/A |
I just purchased an Infocus LP290. It runs good at 60/120Mhz 800x600. I notice a little flicker but only if I try to see it. I had to down the 3D image displacement to 5% because of the large screen. My only problem is it seems to display a flat image about every 15 frames. I don't know if the progressive/deinterlace video feature is doing this and/or if I just need to continuously tinker with the stereo modes and refresh rates. Anyone with an Nvidia card and Infocus projector I'd be interested in knowing every setting you are using for both the projector/monitor/card/timing to make it work properly. I'll post my settings if I can ever get it right. After at about 2 hours of trial with error and $650 in the hole I'm very frustrated. | ||
| Who Reads This? Rating: N/A |
Hello, I guess I'm the only DIY 3D projector person left, everyone else decided to waste their money on the DepthQ. I just wanted to say most any of the cheap projectors can create stereo 3D as long as you know the refresh rate of the projector and set your monitor to the same or double that. Even the cheapest projectors have a 60mhz refresh. Setting the monitor refresh to 120mhz would definately eliminate any flicker and still sync with with the glasses, so with a $400 projector from eBay and a $30 stereo card w/ glasses you have it all. I don't know why everyone insists on the X1a, the refresh rates are slow and lumens low, the only benefit is the life hours that is if you then half your already low lumens, then the shutter glasses will only worsen that problem. You can get other infocus models cheaper that have refresh rates up to 100mhz not that it matters, 1700 lumens, or other brands at 2200, so I guess really what is the point of making a list and how is it that you make some models not work unless the progessive mode is messing it up and why buy an X1a then say it is a great deal and what is the point of a forum nobody reads ever? | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Who Read This: All projector declaring higher than 60 Hz refresh rate usualy downscales higer one to 60 Hz (with some expception working partialy to 85 Hz but producing color desync) = no stereo. None of the cheap projector can from pricipal reasons work at 120 Hz (I was participation in DepthQ development, I know what I speak about). | ||
| Who Reads This? Rating: N/A |
I never said the projector would sync at 120Hz just the glasses, 2x's the speed catches the same frames as 1x, 4x, 8x etc. We DIY people do it with the cheap projectors all the time to prevent the headaches, just check the other 3D forums out there, yeah the projector downscales to 60hz but that's not what you see blinking in the 1st place, it's the glasses cause each lens would blink at 30 if you set the timing to 60, common sense tells you that, and for most humans 30 is to slow for comfort but only because both eyes aren't seeing the same image at the same time creating what seems to be 15hz on the eyes (ouch!) although any tech would claim differently including myself because it actually is still at 30hz. Downscales don't mess anything up as long as the monitor setting is an exact multiple of the refresh rate on the projector, that is true at least until stereo projector companies smart up and make the refresh rate random rather than static, then people like the developers of DepthQ would get a few more sales from people like me who would have no choice or companies could just pick a random unpublished refresh for each screen size making it virtually impossible to guess since nVidia's drivers let you pick the refresh to a 100th of a degree. Even if all of us cheapos got together we'd never be able to produce the correct setting for every projector out there, so don't worry, you'll still get your money selling toys to the rich, meanwhile the handful of us who know better will continue playing our games in stereo until it becomes affordable for everyone else to join us, I'm not saying DepthQ isn't an excellent product, because it works great, a lot better than my junk (literally) but it's just too darn expensive for me and my buds right now. But there is something I don't exactly know that you can explain. How it is that there are color problems on some projectors unless one wheel spins at a different speed than the other, that's not right in the 1st place, it's a projector problem, not a compatibility problem, 60hz should be 60hz not 60-60-60-75, that's false advertising, I guess the reason most projector companies have stopped publishing exact rates already, more money to ya, I'm happy though, good luck DIY's and to you too M.H., thanks for the response :-) | ||
| clyde Rating: N/A |
interesting... what I cant understand, is how you can have 120hz on yr monitor and 60 hz on yr projector at the same time? Or - what you are saying is that the projector should be capable enough to "accept" the 120hz signal even tho it scales it down internally to 60? even so I'm sceptical about the flicker being reduced by this method, but I havent tried yet. _Regards | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
"Who reads this", I cannot follow your explanations. Whenever a projector downscales to 60 Hz, you get 30 Hz plickering per eye. There is no workaround. > any of the cheap projectors can create stereo 3D Wrong. See first posting for projectors which do not work at all. (Of course you might be able to use them with passive systems, but this discussion is about pageflipped 3D). | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
Here is a compatibility list of many more projectors: http://www.razor3d.de/positivliste.asp | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
My opinion abou the razor3d table: Most of the listed projector will work somehow only at 60 Hz. I do not belive the table is based on true testing of the projectors for stereoscopic usage - it is probably based only on the manufacturer informations = higer frequency will not work or they will be out of phase. P.S. InFocus DpethQ work up to 120 Hz not only up to 100 Hz as listed in the table (and it works on all lower frequences)... | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
Peter great find. But I see the Infocus X1 there which I have. 3D is great only when fed at 1024 in native mode, this however gives a cropped image as the projector can only do 800*600. Not that brillient. Every other resolution and frequency there is significant ghosting. Awaiting some news on the X3 as that DLP chip is 1024 and some reports have been favourable. So unfortunately that list may not be as accurate as it could be.. Sorry to bring a downer on it but if one that is listed doesn't work well then what of the others??? Hate to see someone shell out the cash and end up dissappointed. All the best Unclebob | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
It's been a while since i posted after burning up the bulb on my x2. Well, I broke down and bought the x3 today since circuit city is selling it for $874 after rebates (Great Deal!). 3D performance wise, it appears to function just like the x2, which is great! Just finished playing a little painkiller and it is stunning at 1024x768. 75 hz refresh works with slight color issues but it isn't a big deal with painkiller since it is such a dark game anyway. More to come on other games once i have had a chance to play a little more. Great to be able to play in stereo again on the bigscreen! PiXeL | ||
| Gargol Rating: N/A |
Hey thanks for the feedback! I am looking for the X3 also. I have an x1 right now but i want more resolution and correct 3D. Can you get it to work at 85hz? And how is the projector overall for films, it is better than the x2 or x1? Thanks for taking time | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
This was posted by "Hornet" on another thread, which I copied here so that this thread becomes a comprehensive list of test results: *** Yesterday I tested projector Benq PB 6240 XGA 1024x768 2700ANSI with shutterglasses e-dimensional and stereo is wery good to 84 Hz! Flicker is minimally, is 1 frame delay (L/R reversation) and L/R color difference - in stereo this is no visible. The picture is great and with wery good contrast. No ghosting! This is for my the cheapest XGA stereo solution. In 1 week i will buy this projector, the tested projector was from my friend - and friend and I were totally shocked from superb stereo. *** | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
I've bought an LG BX220. It works with pageflipping between 60 and 85 Hz. In 85 Hz, there is a slight blue tint to the colour of one of the eyes. ...it could be a nice feature if nVidia's stereo driver could allow colour tweaking for separate eyes - then you could get rid of the blue tint. /Alex | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
x3 works well at 85hz with small color change in each eye. the jump in resolution is very noticeable and anti aliasing looks much better. painkiller is still my favorite game. PiXeL | ||
| Jorn Are Rating: N/A |
benq mp610 is awesome at 85Hz, and I dare you to find a cheaper better performing unit. Happy happy :D | ||
| Jorn Are Rating: N/A |
Too happy getting a new projector I guess I was a bit too quick posting about it. Trying to play I have noticed it does have a one frame delay (how do I get rid of this?), and also the green in the picture is gone for some reason when I insert my edimensional dongle. Can't see anything visually wrong with it, and It does work on my other CRT monitors.  Oh well, everything can't be so perfect after all. I can live with the missing green if I can figure out how to swap the left/right. | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
Hi, the simplest way for reverse is reverse glasses usage (up is down), simple and easy. The other way is "reverser" (1x 3,5mm jack female and 1x 3,5mm jack male and 5cm of 3 wires cable with the change of 2 no ground wires - this is my future plan). | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
If your 3D application doesn't allow to swap left/right you could solder an adapter which exchanges left and right signals. | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
Hi, today I tested Benq PE 7700 (DLP,6 segm.wheel,5x wheel speed). Interesting this supermachine had no normal VGA input - is possible VGA signal usage only per adapter (R,G,B,W signal). No 75,80 Hz, absolutly no synchronisation and no stereo. I had only 1 hour for test, i have changed res. and refresh. No succes. Possible good Benq is new MP 720, only zoom is lower vs PB 6240. I think my definitive choice is 6240. (Good stereo, and price). | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
Hi, Benq PB 6240 news:yesterday is my new projector arrived. Max refresh:real 86Hz stereo in 1024x768 ! No ghosting, No flicker, with e-dimensional e-glasses, 1 frame delay is no problem (change of L/R vires from glasses by one switch). Only little, little color L/R difference, absolutly no problem in stereo. Picture is absolutly sharp and 2700 ANSI is sufficient for 3d stereo 3m diagonal on simple white wall with reserve of lumens. Great Benq. The projector is 4 segment wheel, 2x speed, is 2005 model,the price is very good. | ||
| pheggie Rating: N/A |
Peter, can't change left right wires with H3D dongle for H3D wireless glasses as left and right is sent down one wire as serial data. It has 3 wires to the infrared sender. +5V, Ground, Left+Right serial data as the 3 wires. Is their a solution? | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
I thing yes, I hope the L/R change result is the change of L/R open/close status of LCD panels of glasses. The second possibility is the use of glasses with changed orientation (down side is upside), no so aesthetic, but functional. The picture with PB 6240 is great! (I not a benq dealer :-) | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
> Peter, can't change left right wires with > H3D dongle. Is their a solution? To watch videos, yes. Stereoscopic Player can toggle left/right (View->Swap Left/Right, hotkey F7). My H3D controller seems to output a VESA Mini-DIN 3 compatible signal on the IR port, because I've once connected professional wired glasses and they worked. VESA Mini-DIN 3 consists of a ground pin, a 5V power supply pin a TTL-level data pin. Passing the data signal thru a TTL inverter will reverse left/right. | ||
| pheggie Rating: N/A |
Thanks Peter that seems a pretty easy thing to implement for H3D glasses right/left reversal One wire is red presume this is +5V one wire is black assume this is ground the last wire is white I presume this is the one to invert. Can check with a logic probe. If I use a low level schottky ( LS )TTL inverter would that mean I can use the +5V line instead of an external power supply? What's your opinion. Would that inverter have enough power to drive the pair of infrared LED's of the sender. | ||
| pheggie Rating: N/A |
Hi Peter, the H3D manufacturers say no the inverter won't work. The way the glasses knows which eye is active is by the value of the data stream. For example a 0x23 means right eye and 0x33 means left. | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
Hi, my new experiment with Benq PB 6240: with adapter wide angle lens (Vanguard wide angle lens adaptor, factor x 0,79) (this is wide angle lens for digital cameras and videocameras) it is possible the 20% magnification of picture from the same distance. From 3,7 m distance cca 4m diagonale picture. Great for home cinema and 3D. The price in Slowakia is cca 70EUR. The optics is good. | ||
| Carsten Meyer Rating: N/A |
Have a nice day, I`m the brain from the 3D VGA Progressive Box (this Box works with one DLP-Projektor without PC, you need only a Field Sequential 3D DVD) The positivlist you can found by razor is correct because my Box works between 60 and 100 Hz. More information about Projectors and my Hardware under http://www.3D-konverter.de or http://www.3d-konverter.de/progliste/BeamerTests.xls Bye from cold germany Carsten (cybermeyer) | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
Hi, after aprox. 50 hours 3d stereo pageflipping and (litle time) movie projection with Benq PB 6240 I very happy. Stabile 86 Hz in 1024x768, no ghosting, no problems. I absolutly satisfied. The price/benefit ratio is very good. With wide angle lens the picture is great from short distance. For movies is wery good black color enhancement= usage of neutral filter (or 5-6mm tinted glassrests from glass market). | ||
| tiggerhase Rating: N/A |
@ John Are I'd like to buy the MP 610 also if it works with shutterglasses. Can you tell a little bit more about your experiences with this beamer and 3D? Thanks! | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
Hi, see please this: http://www.stereo3d.com/discus/messages/3177/3642.html?1135086714 The MP 610 i think is no ideal, the MP 720 i think were better (better res.), the MP projectors are modernised PB with 5 color 3x speed color wheel. The PB proj are 4 color 2x speed. This is the difference. I personally were recomneded PB 6240 - good bright, good res., and wery good price (is older model). For home cinema and so is good, only had no DVI input. 3D is absolutly problemless at 86Hz. | ||
| pheggie Rating: N/A |
Using ACER PD113P get great pageflipped 3d up to 85Hz. Managed to get it sync doubled to use with old version of 3dplus v2 by using Powerstrip and set custom resolution profile for PAL 50p 720x576 at 50Hz but color was weak at this resolution. reverse stereo doesn't seem to matter with 3dplus v2 | ||
| marcus Rating: N/A |
A question to hornet I am about to purchase the infocus x3 but from what you are saying I am tempted by the benq pb6240 can you tell me have you tested the x3 as a comparison ? Thanks Mark | ||
| Hornet Rating: N/A |
Answer for marcus: Hi, I have no tested X3,technical parameters are very similar to PB 6240,(res,freq.range of vert.sync, DLP chip,color segment wheel speed,optics ) only light output ANSI is lower (1700 X3 v.s. 2700 ANSI PB 6240). For active stereo is good the light output reserve - the shutterglasses reduces light input in the eye. I not a Benq dealer, only I have Benq in my home and I very satisfied (i have before my purchase the possibility of test of benq). Not so good is lamp life time 2000/3000 h Benq, and lamp garancy 500h or 6 months, lamps are rel.expensive. Benq is wery good for homemade montage of wide angle adapter lens (the picture is with this 20% greather from the same distance). Purchase of projector for 3d is complicated process. | ||
| David Woodhead Rating: N/A |
Hi all, Now as you can tell from this post i'm not the most technically minded individual out there. LOL However i did buy an infocus 4805 a couple of months back, and somehow managed to set it up. LOL Wow, i never thought i would ever see anything like it in my living room!!Amazing! Anyway, back to the 3d stuff LOL I was watching one of those colour code 3d films on it and i must say i was pretty impressed with the 3d effect. Now after finding this site through numerous links and having a look at that list Pete posted way back in October am i right in thinking that LCD shutter glasses like the edimensional thingies will actually work with it? You know just the glasses, control box, dvd player and projector? Or even using a PC for that matter? Has anyone tried the infocus 4805? You know guys i might just give it a go and see what happens. I'll still be able to use them with my good old TV, but my god, if it actually works i'll be lost for words!!!!!!! Dave | ||
| Jesper Rating: N/A |
Well, color code films are one thing pageflipping is another. But if you try it let us know how it works. | ||
| pheggie Rating: N/A |
Isn't the Infocus 4805 a DVI only not VGA so how do you get it to work with a VGA 3d dongle to it? Or do you fit it to a VGA card which has one VGA out and one DVI output? | ||
| ajay501 Rating: N/A |
hi pheggie, you may be able to use a VGA to DVI adapter. I found one at tigerdirect.com for 7.99 $U.S. Here's another projector 3D test: Optoma EZ 745. (advertised lumen output - 2300) This projector is not listed on the Optoma website, must be a special build for tigerdirect.com. Works at 85 Hz in 3D with eDimensional shutterglasses. Noticed no color distortion. Advertised refresh rate 100Hz - but found that this is not true! Only goes up to 85Hz, but found this to produce no noticable flicker. - cheers | ||
| jass Rating: N/A |
http://www.elec-micro.com | ||
| Andy W. Rating: N/A |
I have a ScreenPlay 4805 and some old Eye3D shutter glasses. I haven't used the glasses in a long time because I don't have any CRT monitors any more. I tried them on my LCD monitor, and of course it didn't work due to polarization issues. Anyway, I have a Shuttle XPC, so I carried it out to the living room and plugged it into the pj, along with the glasses. By the way, the pj comes with a VGA to DVI cable. Before hooking it up I made sure to get the stereo 3D driver from NVidia, but I had to "downgrade" my Forceware drivers to 78.01. Well, it worked! It only goes up to 75Hz (37.5 per eye), but the 3D effect is quite good. From about 15 feet away, it looked like the NVidia logo was floating right in the center of my living room! Of course, this is not a perfect solution. Eventual headache or fatigue is likely with the flicker. And as expected, brightness is reduced considerably. Make sure you're not running in "low power" mode. | ||
| Andy W. Rating: N/A |
Oh, I forgot to mention. The thing I thought would be a real problem before I tried it was ghosting. I didn't see one bit! | ||
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