| Author | Message | ||
     Jorge Rating: N/A |
It's known in this forum that daeyang is developing a new visor, which they call FMD, and you can find here: http://www.daeyangenc.com/products/near/fmd.asp It was said that daeyang's one is going to use emagin's oled microdisplays for it, but there was very little knowlech about this, so i emailed them requesting more info before i made the decision about buyinf emagin's z800 or wait for their product. It's too late for me, because i already have two z800 in my hands, but i copy&paste the response they emailed me: ______________________________________________ I'm interested in FMD display, and i know its based on Emagin's OSD microdisplays. But your design is lighter, and it accepts more stereovision formats. When do you plan to start selling the FMD? I would like if i can wait for your product or if i just buy emagin's z800 right now. As i can see in your web, you only have an ilustrated picture with a "concept design", not real photos, so will it take a long time to be in market? My email is jorge@xxxxxxxx.com (its not enoght space on your contact page) Thanks in advance for your answer. Jorge ------------------------------------------ Dear Mr. Jorge,xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" / First of all, we should apologize for our late response on your request according to our Korean Thanksgiving Holidays from last week. And we do appreciate for your kind interest in our product, new FMD FX601. Regarding to FMD development status now, we have arranged our launching plan on Oct. 20th which can be delayed a little bit no more than 2 weeks. We have already produced our prototype sample which can be distributed after our complete inspection. The adjustment and supplementation process is actively progressing as MVT Level. You will have a good opportunity to review our new FMD product within a short time. It will not take a longer as you are thinking now. We have attached our catalog which will provide a real picture of our FMD (Prototype) and some detailed information you are expecting to have. And we would like to suggest that you take this opportunity know more about the model and provide us some general market scheme & quantity so that we can prepare sufficient stock for your need. As we are not looking for great sales profit from PC model at this time, we are really trying to establish our FMD marketability to penetrate into worldwide market. If you have any questions about the new product or give us inquiring purchasing price and pre-order, please don't hesitate to ask us any time. Every bit of your information is important to us and thank you very much, Best regards, Alex Seo Overseas Sales Manager Daeyang E&C _________________________________________________ They sent me a pdf maketing brochure, but i have no web page or similar, if someone of you guys want to upload it for sharing to this forums, please post your adress and i'll mail you. Later, you can post here the download link. So, if you are planning in z800 but not too sure, or not in a hurry, perhaps you better wait. Regards; Jorge | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Some comments on brochure's info: I prefer the futuristic look of the concept art than the "real thing". There are less 3d stereovision formats supported as readed on web, but it seems there's one more than z800's. Is is weared as a normal glasses, so all that crap we readed about z800's pitching noses could apply here, but remember its only 120 gr, so i complain more about glasses falling when you quickly turn your head playing a game than discomfort about the weight. z800 better for "hard" gamers - FMD better for laptop users? Opinions? | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
The main differences seem to be no head tracker - although there are mixed reports as to how useful that is on the Z800 different optics this being prism based Still no real reviews on the Z800 yet, obviously no reviews on this non released products yet. Not sure either of these 1st gen products cut it for me though. The FOV is not wide enough for real immersion, the resolution is hardly jaw dropping and the impression of looking at a 100 inch screen at 2 meters is not that different than looking at a 17inch monitor at 2 feet... Not sure why you'd really want to part with $900 for that experience. Unclebob | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, not "real reviews" is not accurate. There's lots os users reviews here, in this forum. Perhaps is not "professional" people, but you can read dozens of "profesional" reviews and still not getting the point of this visor. Until you dont review it by yourself, you will not be sure about if it is made for you or not. I trust more in independant people like raeldor, than in "profesional" people that could be biased because the money spent in marketing. I remember more available products like graphic cards an the word wars about which one is better and no conclusion because nobody agrees in that point. I had luck: a member of this forum let me saw his z800, so before i paid them, i knew what emagin was going to ship to me. But i ordered them BEFORE I saw them, only because raeldor's and other's feelings. Some people will find the z800 a marvel, and some other will be disappointed. Perhaps a middle point is my case. One thing about inmersion: resolution and fov is not the whole thing. There's only one sense there. You can raise the quality of sight sense with a good stereo3d game, a 6800GT and up, AA and FSAA, playing in a dark room, etc.... head tracking adds movement realism to the xperience, and so on.. AND you can mixt it like in my setup with a medusa 5.1 headphones (good hearing inmension), a logitech momo racing force feedback steering wheel + an aura interactor vest ( for tactil sense inmersion) + rock n ride motion simulator and ...............you are INSIDE the simulated world! For the money, i can get nothing better. For MY money. Your money, your decision. Regards; Jorge | ||
| Dave Foster Rating: N/A |
Jorge what is Alex's email at Daeyang? Thanks | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Dave, seuy21c@dyenc.co.kr | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
Jorge user reviews are not 'real' reviews. Not only could they be written by marketing people for emagine but they can also be written by companies competing against emagine. Independant reviews by people/professionals who review many different types of kit and who have no vested interest in defending or promoting any purchase are the only reliable reviews out there. As yet none of the main hardware review sites or publications have reviewed the Z800. How you spend your money and make your decisions on what to purchase is of course your concern. However, expensive hard won experience tells me not to rely on users reviews as often the people reviewing have nothing else to compare things with or do not have the experience to look at a piece of kit the way someone who does this for a living would approach it. Ultimately as you rightly say you pays your money and takes your chances. Based on those reviews you refer to, the unit needs to be set up properly (and you only get that information from these forums not the manufacturer), the head tracker has some issues and needs some getting used to, the head tracker does not work in every game, there are some issues with dead pixels and optics in terms of blurring (which can be minimised). The FOV is an issue for some, 800*600 is ok but not great for gaming, the software has needs some work on in terms of calibration, brightness, the headphones are'nt that great etc... $900 is a lot of give ... but if you spend that kind of money you need to be sure about what you are getting. I'm happy that you are happy with yours. The rest of your kit also shows that you are not someone without a little cash... Not everyone is so lucky or as experienced in getting things together. Spare a thought for those. Unclebob | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
I agree with you in most of things, unclebob, but this piece of hardware is unlikely to be ever reviewed. Why? Just because it is not a main stream market component. How many sites do you know usually review VR gadgets? In case a "professional" site takes a look at this z800 in perhaps a monitor or displays category, i bet he is not going to take the point, because he is going to think in terms of a typical lcd display (contrast,pixel ms response), and this is not that. If i was looking for an lcd, i would spend half the z800 amount and get "double" the quality. I was loking for an Vr experience, and the point of view of most of the users reviews is that. They usually talk about fov, head tracking and other objetive measurements that make subjective feelings. 42 fov is 42 fov for everybody, but you can find that it is not enought for you, and plenty inmersive for another guy. You told me about comparison between this item and another one, and raeldon did, as did others in this forums. As an experimental tecnology, there will be FLAWS for sure! But if think they are minor and have a solution in most cases. If you want make a decision you have to "believe" in other users or test it yourself. Will you buy it if TomsHardware or Anadtech gives it a 9 points review? You can still be disappointed, no doubt about that. If you read users coments, there are minor flaws but if i dont remember wrong, nobody sent it back to emagin. If you feel like this is a lotery so: you can be lucky and like the z800 (like it 900$) or unlucky and feel you wasted your money, then dont buy a 900$ ticket. But others did, and won. Regards, Jorge | ||
| AlbusD Rating: N/A |
Jorge - I agree. Personally I think the reviews and discussion on this forum have been most helpful. Real people and real users working out bugs and offering help and suggestions and fielding and answering questions. The product has been available for like 2 months and the z800 users thread is already the largest thread this forum has ever seen, with 300 posts. The vast majority are positive both in their impression of the visor and in their degree of helpfulness. That says a lot too. I don't know about returns , but I have seen a few of them show up on ebay , so maybe it is not making everyone happy though. | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
Jorge anand, toms, firing squad, hexus, hardop, beyond3d, guru3d, this site, stereonetvision, all the PC magazines, all the gaming PC magazines...all these have reviewed shutterglasses, HMDs, autostereoscopic displays etc etc. so why not this? All emagine has to do is to send them some review pieces - hell they can even send someone to go and set it up for them... Why not Chris that runs this site??? What do you think is going to happen when the Aegis (i think that spelt right) Physics accelerator card gets released, just because nothing like that exsits do you think all those sites are going to ignore it or rubbish it because its new?? Of course not. As for not 'getting it' is that not the point of an independant reviewer because if you cannot convince someone independant that its a stand up product how on earth are you going to convince the masses?? The 3d community is a very very limited market. Enthusiasts writting postive stuff about a product they are excited about is not unbiased. Even Nvidia recognises the size of this community and it took us 3 months to get a separate forum on their own tech support boards for stereo3d issues and on there there are only about 20-30 regular posters. As for being dissappointed if I read a review for something and it gives it 9 out of 10 well that happens I am sure, but its the text and the score that gives confidence of reaching into your pocket and doshing out the cash... Besides in the 300 odd posts in that big thread thats there, there are only a handful of impressions and several common themes which I have outlined above. I am sure you are really happy with your purchase but for me and I suspect others its too early days and too little hard information. As for people sending them back there are several of those too. Take care mate. Unclebob | ||
| Anon Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, I've heard you rant on and on about professional reviews. I however believe that professional reviews are marketing ploys and that a real end users review always has more weight. I don't care what some company has been paid to say, I want to know what the end user has to say about it. Your argument also assumes that a professional review is unbiased. At this point I guess it really doesn't matter, its all just opinions. | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
Anon no ranting here. Of course you must be right. All those magazines about cars, TVs, stereos, PCs, PC componants, gaming mags, film reviews, dvd reviews, cd reviews, book reviews, restaurant reviews etc etc are only there because the people that make those products pay all those people to endorse them. Yeah right. | ||
| Anon Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, With your same sarcasim... Of course you must me right. All the end user reviews about cars, TVs, stereos, PCs, PC compoments, gaming mags, film reviews, dvd reviews, cd reviews, book reviews, restaurant reviews etc etc are only dumb individuals who know nothing about what they believe is a good product. Yeah right. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Your both a little right both a little wrong, you know, just like every review I have ever read. In the end it's what you think. I gotta go change the oil in my 72 pinto, God I love that car, the best car ever made...Drop and roll... | ||
| Ericdg Rating: N/A |
Jorge, The setup you have is exactly what I am going for. Does it give you a fairly immersive experience when playing racing games? My big question is, where did you get the rock n ride motion simulator? I have seen those around the internet, and they look like they would at alot to the immersive experience. I just have never seen a place to buy one. Thanks. | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
Annon thanks for your comments Jorge good luck with your set up All the best guys Unclebob | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
New info: FMD FX 601 PC ONLY MODEL LAUNCHING NOVEMBER 24, 2005! Dear Customer,xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" / We hope your company is doing outstanding job with green signal which is leading a prosperous business. As we have few days left for 2005 year, we also believe that you will finish this year with much successful achievement as you planned. For many months, our company has been developing the new generation FMD wearable display that will blow away the customer¡¯s expectation for sure. All detailed information is included in the attached files. We are currently taking sample inquiries from world-wide. By doing so, we provide people around the globe with the opportunity to understand FMD system and evaluate the quality. Our launching date has been scheduled for Nov. 25, 2005 for FMDs of PC use ONLY. The FMD PC+Video compatible with other equipments/devices such as TVs, DVDs, and game consoles, etc will be available quite soon. Regarding the price information you have requested, our FMD unit price has been set at US$1,100 for the distribution price. As we are not looking for great sales profit from the PC ONLY model at this time, we are trying to penetrate into new markets. Of course, the more quantities you order, the lower price we could offer at. If you have any questions about our product, purchasing price, pre-order, etc, please feel free to ask us. We would like to suggest that you take this opportunity to know more about the product and provide us some general market scheme & quantities so that we can prepare sufficient stock for your need. Every bit of your information is important to us and thank you very much. Overseas Sales Management Team Alex Seo Daeyang E & C --------------------------------------------- It seems to start more expensive than Z800, with a lighter design. I dont see the point except if the optics are superior and get ride off the problems of z800's (i dont think so, i would bet the prism is the same) and if the googles design is more confortable than strips on z800 They have sent me 3 jpgs, i cant upload to any web, if somebody wants, i'll sent it to him. The PC only is as can be readed on brochure, field sequential only, vga input, stereo input, usb powered and something more: as can be seen on photos, the video box is far smaller than z800 and does not have a vga pass-through. Opinions? | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Off topic: Rock n ride Ericdq, For europe: www.playking.de www.rightthing.nl you can find it cheaper on www.ebay.de I thing playking ships international, dont know about the others | ||
| fmd Rating: N/A |
$400 more than the z800? No head tracking? Why bother? | ||
| Anon Rating: N/A |
Quit the damn Z800 marketing! | ||
| bela Rating: N/A |
I'm pretty sure Daeyang E&C is using their own optics in the FMD that are not the same as the Z800. | ||
| fmd Rating: N/A |
The Daeyang is using emagin optics. It doesn't make sense to pay more for the Daeyang over the z800 and get less. Anon your annoying! | ||
| Anon Rating: N/A |
The Daeyang fmd does not use the emagin optics. | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Who's right? Somebody here has confirmated info about the prism? Were did you read this? Or only guessing? | ||
| fmd Rating: N/A |
Anon you are wrong. Are you the same anon=armand that was pointed out in other threads. Probably... Anyways yes the daeyang uses emagin optics. | ||
| Blind1 Rating: N/A |
100% guaranteed that Daeyang uses their own optics. They have a wider fov than the eMagin's WF05 to start off with! | ||
| Glewis Rating: N/A |
Jorge ask Daeyang directly on optics specs and post here. | ||
| bela Rating: N/A |
Daeyang makes their own optics solution and they believe it to be better than eMagins. | ||
| anon2 Rating: N/A |
You guys are funny. Daeyang is using eMagin's micro displays 100%. They did an OEM deal. They may claim to have their own optics and may have done custom work but they are using emagin OLED. Daeyang DOES NOT manufacturer microdisplays. They probably want to keep in quiet but they are using eMagin displays. | ||
| anon3 Rating: N/A |
Actually they do manufacture their own displays. You have been misinformed. | ||
| anon4 Rating: N/A |
I HIGHLY doubt they manufacture their own displays. Probably an eMagin, Kopin or Brillian. The unit is crap anyways. Over priced, bad picturem no 3d and no tracking for $1000US+ Good luck! | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
I'm sure its emagin OLEDs what they are using. If you read the first email i sent to them i talk about this and they doesn't deny it so i assume its true. I'm just wondering about the PRISM, the increase lens that makes you can see the tiny oled microdisplay as a 40 FOV image. I can see is made in plastic, and the most important problems the z800 has are originated by its poor quality (bluriness, picky centered position...) I hope they are are least making their own lenses, but from what i can see on the high quality photos they sent to me, the plastic "encapsulated" has exactly the same shape than z800, plus in the diagrams of the pdf the prism they draw has the same shape too. BUT im just wondering. The same as you guys. If somebody has contrasted info please put it here and probe it. This unit HAS 3d (field sequential) and in their plans there will be two more versions: a PC Video and S-video one with field sequential and a 3D FULL version with field sequential and SEPARATED. No word about headtracking, so i suposse there is not. | ||
| anon5 Rating: N/A |
Daeyang has terrible quality control as well. This is a failure already based on price alone. | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Both displays and optics that daeyang uses are the same as z800's: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2002_August_8/ai_90202351 | ||
| cutlass Rating: N/A |
Jorge: It's possible, but not likely that the optics are the same design but different material. It's not a difficult process to attach the optics to the display, or to have eMagin do it for you. By the way, I was reading what you said in September about first adopter reviews versus professional reviews. Since then we've had reviews in PC Magazine, MaximumPC and a video review from somewhere I can't recall. The first one was ridiculous because he couldn't figure out how to adjust the eyepiece. The second was ok but wrong on how the 3d worked. The videotaped review was much better. I am tired of hearing reviewers cry about the price...they seem to have no idea that the next best visor costs in the $2-5,000 range. Thank you for all your input. La vida va mejor con 3d.. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Hey cutlass, could you find a link for me to the Z800s video review ? I would like to see it if you can find it. Thank's. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Looks like Google is my friend..LOL cutlass, is this the link to the Video Review you spoke of or is there a differant one ? http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1879592,00.asp | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
One more thing I would like to ask the people that have used the Z800. In the video review they show in game video clips. Could you people who have used the Z800 please watch the video and tell me if those video clips are of real Z800 screens being used in the clips. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
I don't have a z800 but considering the lens effect you can see in some of game footage I think they are filming direclty the z800 screens. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Good eye TigerClaw. I think your right. Anyone else think so also or have a Z800 and know for shure. | ||
| anon Rating: N/A |
Water1 your getting really annoying. You have been asking questions about the z800 for months. Just buy it aleady and stop being a cheap bastard. There is nothing else out there close to it ok!! | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
I have been using this board since 1999 and have never made a post like yours anon. I did thread jack so I am very sorry about that. Asking off topic questions in a thread is somthing I do way too much and saying "sorry" just does not cut it, so I will make shure that I don't do it again. | ||
| Mick Rating: N/A |
Hey anon you buy the z800 piece of shit and enjoy. I myself think is not worth the money as many people do. Read the reviews shit head. |
