| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous Rating: N/A |
New SVGA headset to be unveiled at CES this week. "Other portable gadgets will have organic light-emitting-diode microdisplays, which are small but brighter and use less power than current liquid-crystal displays. EMagin will sell a 3-D visor, the Z800, which will allow people to watch videos on an OLED display that covers their eyes." http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/business/technology/10548351.htm | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Does OLED still has the problem with the color after 18 months? For phone is OK, but not HMD. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Where do you get that from? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What is the cost? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
eMagin displays are color filtered WOLEDs , so I don't think lifetime/differential aging is so much of an issue. Measured well into the tens of thousands of hours to half last i heard. Anyone know if this is just yet another protype that'll never see consumer availability. Other than the Myrtle beach story posted , I don't see anything on emagin website. No specs or pictures or anything. Are they manufacturing the entie HMD themselves? I thought they just did display on a chip work. Any guesses on pricing? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
yeah . Where's a picture of this thing? More hype or finally an answer to our prayers> Who here is going to Consumer Electronics to check this out? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
word is the virtual image looks like a 105" screen at 12 feet away | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
"105" screen at 12 feet away" This doesn't mean anything. It's still about 40 degree FOV DIAGONAL. It's only good for secure viewing, not VR. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
"No specs or pictures or anything. Are they manufacturing the entie HMD themselves? I thought they just did display on a chip work." They own Virtual Vision who used make HMD's so maybe it's all them. The newspaper says to be unveiled at CES this week. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
This is real. Watch for the announcement in the am . The 40 degree fov is OK if you don't want to risk other effects, and the integrated headtracker will take care of most needs. Understand that this is a plastic asymetric prismatic optic. Short of a custom glass job, it's higher fov per ounce than anything to date. Pricing should blow anything else away. By far. It'll include sound and mike. The stereo vision is the best you'll ever see. It'll run off of a USB port, since the displays draw less than 200MW each. Including the drivers/light source etc (There are none, they are interated into the chip). - Someone's been listening. Now it's your turn to speak up. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What kind of tracker are they using? I saw a prototype in another show and it was a tad jittery. They said they would be upgrading to a mems based tracker to smooth it out. Any info on if this one has it? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Just another "prototype" that'll we'll never see in my opinion. | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
105 inch at 12 feet = 39 inch at 1 meter. That is still 30 % better than i-glasses, wich clearly is a nice improvement. | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Oops, it´s 29 inch at 1 meter. My fault. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Check it out at : http://www.3dvisor.com/ http://www.3dvisor.com/html/product.htm I WANT ONE OF THESE!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
yeah extra nice!!!..but it look slike crap too! just to ugly to wear it on the subway station;( | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Thats going to be a good HMD. What a slap in the face of IISVR and their X-viewer!! | ||
| steve Rating: N/A |
the website says the product will list for $899. I hope this is a real product... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
cheaper and better than I-glasses pro plus has head tracker built in | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
::Specs:: Model Name eMagin Z800 3D Visor Viewing Equivalent 105 inch diagonal movie screen viewed at 12 feet Aspect Ratio 4 x 3 Resolution SVGA – 800 x 3 x 600 per display (1.44 megapixels) Stereovision Automatic detect of frame-sequential stereovision data Number of Colors 24-bit color for more than 16.7 million Brightness >50 cd/m2 Headtracking 360 deg horizontal, >60 deg vertical Contrast Ratio >200:1 Power Consumption <1W typical, 1.5W peak View Angle ~ 40 deg diagonal FOV Panel dimension 24 mm W X 23 mm H X 9.5 mm D Weight (display set) <8 oz Signal Input Mode RGB Signal Input (PC D-Sub) 24 bit per pixel color Audio Output Attached stereo sound, maximum output 1.5W Power Supply 5V DC regulated, ~1W or USB Microphone System Built-in noise-canceling microphone Operating Environment Operating Temperature: 0o to 35oC Storage Temperature: -10o to 50oC Related Safety & Ergonomics Adjustable interpupilary distance & tilt adjustment, automatic shutdown after two hours (turn off and on to reset) http://www.3dvisor.com/assets/eMaginz8003DvisorDS.pdf | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
899$? damn! when the'll bring 1920*1080 with 180° FOV for 2000$? thats more worth it.. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Great start for WOLEDs. Give it a year or so and if demand for this is high enough they'll probably invest to bring out something even more immersive. So the best thing to do will be to buy one. After all if there is no initial market then they will not invest in better products. eMagin if you are reading this why not give your launch an amazing viral marketing coup and offer the current stereo3d community a discount on list. We're the ones that will make the most noise as it is 'our thing'. I know from my perspective that a number of friends have done the projector thing after seeing my set up. If this works as well as it promises on paper I'll be queuing my friends up to show it off! Unclebob | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Well, I think this is real. At least eMagin is gonna be at CES: http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/directory/rd_exhibitor_details.asp?exhibid=8227 | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Re List suggeston OK. Great idea. As a hypothetical-Assuming someone at eMagin were "listening". How does one get the list ? Who gets contacted for said list. If one were to organize a small preview demo for those people, could it be done near the Company's headquarters in Redmond or New York ? This is all very hypothetical of course. BTW - Anyone else surpised how cold it is in Vegas. I mean they hardly had any melting on the Burton Moto Board Jump . Way cool . Anyway this place is a zoo. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
On list, means discount on list price. By the way I have emailed a couple of their VPs pointing them to the main forums of our little community. If they engage with us 'die hards' then they would get some superb promtion across the web. As I said on the ATI stereoglasses forum - poor old ATI, if this toy stacks up who on earth would by a graphics card that can't do stereo3d? It will be a little like buying a mono radio or a black and white TV when you can have colour.... Unclebob | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Who said it looks like crap? It´s looking very cool in my opinion.  | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Hi folks, Ok tell me if i am wrong, but my understanding of true stereoscopic 3D with this emagin 3D visor, is that it will connect to your PC d-sub port and then you use the Nvidia stereo drivers. In these drivers their is a setting for dual monitor support for stereoscopic gaming. Then you enable it and now each eye get's a seperate 3D image, thus enabling you to see true stereo 3D. Now on the emagin 3D visor website it says that it creates a virtual image of 105 inches viewed at 12 feet away, now to my understanding that is for 2D viewing, when you want to view a DVD movie, like on the train or in the plane. but the dual monitor imaging that uses 1 d-sub cable combined with the nvidia stereo drivers is for true sterescopic gaming, and it has another feature which all you need to do is install the nvidia stereo drivers, then there is no congfiguration to be done in the drivers for stereo 3D as the HMD has a automatic detect of frame sequential stereovision data. So that means the HMD automatically can configure it self for best stereo viewing in 3D games using a stereo driver i.e in this case the nvidia stereo drivers. When this dual monitor setup is done you dont actually see the image at 12 feet away because your eyes are seeing one image for each eye, as the nvidia drivers can split the image in to 2 images, using a primary monitor setup, and because of the high quality OLED screens, you won't actually notice the image far away from you and because the 40 degree field of view FOV you will feel like you are actually there I believe this is right what i am saying, please correct me if i am wrong | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Ok one more message, As the 3D visor is at CES, i heard it is on demo there, it's been a few days now, how come i cannot find any infomration out there on the internet. All these hardware and gaming sites are previewing all sort of new gadgets on all the technology from the show. But all i have found is press articles about the 3D visor. You know last year the Sensio 3D was the most amazing product at the Cebit show. You know that's that DVD 3D video processor that has gained fame from all over the world, as it can truly create a Imax experince in your own home. But it's strange there has not been much talk about the 3D visor, because the sensio 3D after the first day of showing, there was rave all over the internet, loads of people were talking about it and how it really works and is as good as being in Disneyland's 3D theatres, so i hope they will be some talk from the 3D visor as i imagine it is available for anyone going to the show for both trade and general public to demo it. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
I also hope that the 3D visor won't lose some of its's features because i think the microphone is cool, it means playing flight simulators will be a blast online, you could talk with your opponents up in the air, it will add to the experience or when your playing counter strike source. I say this as some HMD's that have been released in the past, first said that they were going to come with a microphone but once they release it they changed it. I hope they don't loose the microphone. It would be good if the 3D visor had a clip on microphone and clip on headphones, as it seems at the moment from the pictures that it uses in ear buds headphones. If they were clip on's then you could clip them off and add your own more powerful headphones for more immersion. And also if you got a friend that you want to show the HMD to then you want some personal hygiene and don't want them to put your headphones into their ears. The design and look of the headset could be better i would want the look of the VFX3D but of course way thinner but more of a plastic constructed headstrap than the current elastic head strap. I also saw some pictures from the show of the HMD and they do look small, the control box which is also silver looks very small like about 5 inches. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
A few quotes from those with hands on experience: Yahoo EMA Message Board: The Z800 @CES by: happyflyfisher Long-Term Sentiment: Strong Buy The Z800 doesn't come close to your nose- I think the author of that article must have a huge scchnaaze or didn't put it on right or the author is dive. It is not heavy yes there is some wieght to it but it makes it feel like it's supose to be there. The experience of being in the game instead of looking at the game was just awsome. Nano no pixels it was truely crisp and clean.Noticeble pixels in the icuiti.No screen door effect what ever that is.I tried my darnest to look for anything out of sorts and all i get 360 V.R. Just amazing! The booth @ CES was hopin OOOHs and AAAAUUUsss all the time. Gary said a year ago that eMagin is a new company he is right.They have done a superb job through thick and thin and know will kick some but. The time for you shorts to honour yourselves is indeed short. H USAToday CES Blog : "Last night I got a quick, early look at eMagin's remarkable headset/speaker combo, which included some fancy motion-interpretation capacities that made for a wildly immersive gameplay experience. And the friendly folks at the Digital Experience table had plenty to say about all the great uses military trainers have found for their chipsets, but I'm going to leave you with one thought on that $899 headset: Full-body Halo 2 experience. Grown reporters were yelping like puppies." http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/ces2005/2005-01-05-cesblog_x.htm So we can hope for more shortly :-) | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
That's some interesting news, thanks for sharing on this board. Let's just hope soon we will se some detailed articles on the 3d visor, this certainly looks very promising, $900 is a great price for a full system i.e head tracker, mic, HMD Hopefully there will be a lot of demand for this, and next year we will see a 1600x1200 model with 80degree FOV, or perhaps not, but you never know. I think this will be really good as emagin actually designs the chipsets, so they know the ins and outs of what the chip can do so as they making this HMD they can make it amazing, ofcourse there are other companies out there using the oled screens made by emagin, like leadtek with the x-eye, but i think emagin will be the world leaders in consumer HMD's. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
check this website out for 2 pictures of the 3d visor direct from the show http://www.beareyes.com.cn/2/lib/200501/06/20050106206_12.htm | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Wow i never knew this, but i just did a online weight conversion of 8 ounces to grams, as the 3D visor weighs only 8 ounces, with the headtracker, mic, headphones built in and it comes to 225 grams. Now that is unbelievable because the I glasses SVGA 3D Pro, weighs about 700 grams and they don't even have a headtracker or microphone built in, this 3D visor is truly amazing. I have read on the Yahoo EMA meesage boards how some people are saying that it is heavy, thats just nonsense, i believe there are a lot of people lying on there, im sure everything i have said is going to come out to be true in a published report. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
I believe we need to start an ATI petition, i believe the current one is not very reliable as not many people is signing it. We have 6 months till the 3D visor is released, so thats enough time to get ATI to create a stereo 3D driver. It must have Page flipping and frame sequential support, it should have dual monitor support like the Nvidia stereo drivers have. We must start some sort of donation program and advertising to get thousands of people interested, ATI will only do it, if their is great demand. But in the end if they don't do it, i think the edimensional ATI stereo drivers will work, but you will need to buy the wired or wireless version as they don't sell the software on its own, unless we tell them there will be great demand for their drivers by the time the 3D visor is released if the ATI still does not have a stereo driver. I believe that the edimensional drivers will work still with HMD's, even though the edimensional are LC shutter glasses, the software should allow you to use the HMD's as these HMD's use page flipping and the edimensional use page flipping aswell, and remember the nvdia driver software uses pageflipping and because of the dual monitor support HMD's also work on it. It will only be possible if the edimensional software has dual monitor support, if not i am sure they can make it so in the drivers. But it is better to have them directly made into the driver for ATI cards like nvidia have done, we will just have to see. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I posted this in another thread which no longer holds any relevance for the stereoscopic community. I know that for many of you FOV, degrees of tracking, and perceived image size are very confusing and without real world comparisons leave you baffled. I know the feeling because when I first started getting into this 4 years ago I was just as baffled. So I did the math and thought of a way for those of you with interest in HMD's to get a "feel" for what to expect. I've never seen this done but I'm sure it's has been just because it's so simple. Take a box that is 2 feet long and at least 14" wide and 10.5" tall. Cut a hole in one end of the box that is big enough so you can see thru it. Make it big enough so your nose isn't getting squished against the box while it's up against your face. Cut a hole 14" wide and 10.5" tall in the other end of the box. If you've done this right you will look thru the eyehole at one end and see thru the square you cut and the distance between the hole and square will be 2 feet. Why 14"x10.5" you may wonder. A 105" diagonal screen at a 4:3 ratio is 84"x63". Imagine a big "T" with the top line being 84" across and the vertical line being 144" tall (12 feet 'cause that's how far your sitting from the screen). Now draw a line from the bottom of the "T" to one end of the top line and again from the bottom of the "T" to the other end of the top line. Kind of looks like a piece of pie cut down the middle. Now let's measure from the bottom of the "T" up 2 feet. Draw a line strait across at the 2-foot mark. Now measure the distance where this new line crosses both sides of the pie. If you did it right you ended up with 14". Seeing as how we have a 4:3 aspect ratio 3 is 75% of 4 so multiply 4x75% and you get your highth of 10.5". Now lets take our box (or tunnel vision device as BOPrey would probably refer to it as) and go out in the back yard. Look thru your box while trying to ignore the laughing and catcalls coming from your neighbors. This is the FOV that the Emagin HMD will provide you. Keeping the box level turn in a complete circle. This is the 360 horizontal tracking. OK, stop spinning around now 'cause you look foolish. Notice what you can see thru the very top of the "window" of your "screen". Tilt your head back, raising the far end of the box, till what you could see at the top of you "screen: is now at the very bottom. Then raise the far end of the box another 2 1/2". This is 30 degrees vertical tracking. Tilt you head back down so you have your original strait ahead view. Time to tilt your head down till what was at the very bottom of your "screen" is now at the very top. Tilt the far end of the box another 2 1/2" down and you have another 30 degrees of vertical tracking. Add the up and the down and you have your total of 60 degrees vertical tracking. I for one am OK with 800x600 as that's the resolution my gaming projector displays. AA and anisotropic filtering make up for a higher resolution. I would like to see a larger FOV (field of view) but considering it's the best that's come down the pipe and it's only $900 (which is what I paid for my 19" trinitron and 17" LCD way back when) with head tracking then I can't complain at all. Does anyone know if the vertical tracking is adjustable? It will be cool if I can get a little more up than down tracking for my flight combat sims. I realy don't need to see any farther down than my gauges and I could use the added up range to kep an eye on bogies. This may not be the "perfect" HMD solution but neither was the original 11" black and white TV, still everyone that could afford it bought one. These are coming out the same month as my Birthday. Now that is perfect. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
has anyone experimented with fresnel lenses and a HMD to widen the FOV? I have a few large fresnels that i use w/ regular monitors and they work great for immersive effect. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
dvdbunnyhop good luck with your new petition. There have been several over the last 3 years. probably more. Not including the 'direct' feed back to the Catalyst team on the web site and the fact you can email the Catalyst Drivers Prodcut Manager directly. How should I put this? Its not that petitions don't work, its that ATI doesn't listen or care. Bottom line seems to be ATI is simply not interested as this market is too small for them... The ATI card owners who want this to happen eventually get bored waiting (for even a response) and soon realise that the simplist and cheapest method is to go and buy an Nvidia card. Add in that fact that anyone with a real interest in this is almost certainly a Nvidia user - so why would they be interested in getting support for a chipset that they don't use? Check out one of the main ATI forum sites on the net and in particular the Stereo3d thread with has about 900 posts and 36000 views... which is one of the post viewed subjects on the board. http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33651792 Its clear ATI are aware of this market but their message - by their non investment and non interest in clear - if you want this type of technology go buy Nvidia. So please don't get your hopes up (or anyone elses). Don't waste any time waiting for a large corporation to decide to move into this area and then develop something whilst you could be having fun with this today. (The commercial reality is that to take a product to market even an addon like this would be about 6 months from any formal announcement.) I waited 9 months myself before going to a 6800, not looked back. Unclebob | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Hi there, I just read on the emagin 3D visor website that they are going to be offering the HMD as OEM customization. Does that mean other companies will buy the HMD's from emagin and redesign them, or make custom parts like a fully immersive helmet that can be combined with the 3D visor to give you a more immersive effect. It would be cooler to have a sort of light weight thin helmet construction, thant you can connect to the HMD, where the helmet will block out any external light, this is the sort of thing you could use when your at home wanting to view sterescopic 3D in games, and then you could clip the helmet off when you want to travel on a plane journey watching movies. The reason i say all this, is that i have just read some info which is in Russian, i can't read Russian but part of the website is in English, they have 3 old HMD's go here http://www.really.ru/review/vr_hmd_cibermind_3d.html It seems that they have taken the cybermind hi res 900 3D, and put inside the cy-visor by Daeyang, I don't know why as the hi res 900 HMD is suppose to be a very high quality professional HMD compared to the cy-visor which is a consumer HMD. I might be wrong as i don't know Russian, but lets say they did that, then if these OEM companies can turn the 3D visor into something like that then that will be cool, but does that also mean higher cost. Also i have browsed the internet and seen hundreds of 3D movies, can HMD'S like the emagin 3D visor play these 3D movies in stereoscopic 3D? or even can they play DVD movies using that 3D plus software which is made by edimensional for LC shutter glasses? | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Hey Anonymous I posted this in the other thread, and i see you haven't replied, I have a cyber 3d visor, i am selling one, do you want it? | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
the cyber 3d visor can be used with a fresnel, as it is a intergrated headset, you could create some small frenel lens to cover both eyes. It would be better and more comfortbale than viewing a big one one attached to a monitor. | ||
| Seameth Rating: N/A |
well I must admit, I really like what I see w/ this new HMD. and here I was, reading through the board and getting rather discouraged over the prospect of getting my moneys worth out of a HMD. I think this is the first that I've come across that not only hasn't been met with total cynicism, but almost with hope even. After reading through all the 'x-viewer' posts I'd all but considered that an imposibility. I'd just like to thank the people who have a lot more experience with these sorts of things then I do for coming on here and shareing their experience and understanding in such a way that now I've got a clue as to what I'd be getting. John, especially, you're explaination was most helpful. thanx. the only thing I'd love right now is a release date and a venue to purchase from. anyone heard anything about that? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Does those visor have focus ajust, for people who wear glasses already? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Here's a thought on the FOV issue. I have an I-O glasses set that I've been disappointed with because the FOV is too narrow, making the screen too small. When I first got the thing and discovered this, I thought (silly me): "No problem, I'll just adjust the optics". OK, that turned out to be a huge and highly unsuccessful project, but only because of the way the IO's are designed. I'm guessing that this new Emagin set is direct magnification which leaves open the possibility of replacing the lenses with higher power ones. I almost got away with this on mine, but the panel illumination system got in the way. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Hey Anonymous You seem to know a lot about HMD's, as you have had the I-O glasses HMD, you must of played loads of first person shooters and flight simulators. When you play a first person shooter is it wise to put the difficulty on easy as you know the headtracker simulates the movement of the mouse so aiming using the headtracker, would be difficult would'nt it if you were playing on the games hardest difficulty? Also perhaps it's just me or it could be true, imagine the names 'Z800' implies 800x600, so i am thinking perhaps emagin have got another HMD in store for the future like a 'Z960' or 'Z1280' You know: 800x600, 960x720 and 1280x1024 etc etc. Also what's a good device to use with an HMD for movement, does anybody know of a cheap under 150 dollar device that can be used while you are using your HMD, like for instance thee cyberstick, or P5 glove, even anything with forcefeedback? I hope the emagin 3D visor has a long cable, a very long thin cable, as i want to stand using the HMD and move around 360 degrees so i want the cable suspended above me perhaps stuck to the ceiling. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
I think i have just found the proof from a pdf that will tell you that the possible maker of the 3d visor is Daeyang their the company that made the CY visor. here check this out, it's a google search and 3 links down there is the PDF link. the link is called this: Daeyang and eMagin Announce $8 Million Purchase Agreement http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=emagin+3d+visor&btnG=Search | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Also in the link above you will find that the PDF is dated 2002, from a article i found on the internet, it says that the 3D visor has been in the making for 7 years and that they have needed a lot of compnents that were perviously not available until the last few years. Also from another article i found somebody previewing the item at CES said that the item should be ready for purchasing in August. but emagin said 2 quarter 2005. Lets hope they can keep to their promise. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I think I read somewhere that May is the intended launch month. You're welcome Seameth. I'm glad I was able to enlighten you. For those of you that have a concern regarding the 800x600x24 resolution just set your monitor at the resolution and play with the anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering to get a better idea of what your going to see. One of the main benefits of this lower resolution is that you'll be able to use the HMD on lower to mid range cards with higher graphic quality settings. I play CS2, IL2, FS9, LOMAC, Farcry, and many of my other games at the highest possible quality settings in 800x600. all with 16x ansio and for most, 4xAA turned on. I hope we have the ability to use the dual head option on our video cards as this will increase the framerate over the single head setup. Still think I'll go up to a 6800GT though. John | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Ok Anonymous, I don't mean to sound rude, but i think your perception of stereo 3D is a little out of the equation. I have some experience in stereo 3D and i can tell you, that you will need a very fast computer and one of the latest graphics cards which will be minimum for stereo 3D to take effect. Most people these days, with all the latest graphics and chipsets play most of their games in 1600 x 1200 with or without anisotropic filtering and antialiasing. Now even though you can half the resolution to 800 x 600 without stereo 3D, you will get incredible framerates still with FSAA and AF but then when you switch stereo vision on, then graphics card has to work harder at double the frame rate so you will be halfing already what FPS you are getting. So i don't belieeve low to mid end cards will do it justice. I guess we will just have to see. Also your dual head option is not what your expecting. There is no dual inputs, i.e two cables from the HMD to the dual D Sub ports of the graphics card. If you have a Nvidia SLI graphics card which has two DVI outs, your basically not plugging anything into those ports, the HMD connects through the D sub through only one connection and it will be the drivers of the Nvidia graphics card that does the splitting of the image for you, because of it's clever driver dual display support, that will create two seperate images and feed it back to each eye of the HMD, thus giving you true stereo 3D. So you see, it's not so complicated after all. I hope i have cleard that up for anybody, but please correct me if you think i am wrong. I would like to hear from you. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I thought stereo was dependant on the refresh rate not the fps... i know next to nill about this stuff and you talk as if you'd know better so i'm probably wrong | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Anonymous Refresh rate is what your monitor needs in order for your 3D glasses to work with out flicker, in this case LC shutter glasses, from edimensional. So the higher the refresh rate, then the higher the glasses will respond to the amount of light that is being let out for your eyes to see. So you see what is recommended for LC shutter glasses is a CRT monitor which can have a refresh rate of 120hz and more, so the higher refresh rate means the LC shutter glasses will respond more quickly and you should'nt see the flickering going on while the page flipping is in process i.e the left shutter flashes once and then the right shutter flashes and this alternates very quickly on shutter glasses using the page flipping modde in the Nvidia drivers, but this is not always the case even though it flickers a lot you still get ghosting which is where one of youe eyes is seeing one of the split pictures for slightly too long than the other thus creating two images and this looks hazy and is known as the ghost image, or known as ghosting. Now edimensional have found away to get great results using LCD monitors, with their new LCD compatible shutter glasses, and as Desktop LCD monitors only have a 60hz refreh rate and they say 60hz+ is great for them to work. Now HMD's are different, the emagin 3D visor only have a 60hz refresh rate as far as i know, because most consumner HMD'S have that and that does not matter so much as these HMD's don't have to do any flickering like shutter glasses, so it does not matter, it is the frames per second that make the big difference, as you need the game to be very smooth in order to feel immersed. So yes you need a big graphics card, i would say 3 ghz processor. You can get away with par graphics at 2 ghz processor, but you will need 1024 MB RAM and a 6800GT or better and then you can have max detail settings, 800 x 600 and 4 FSAA is more than enough in stereo 3D and 8 AF is more than enough because stereovision smooths out images and get's rid of jaggy lines, but refresh rate does play a part in HMD's for the FOV, but 60hz is fine. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
what part of your message describes why fps is important when using stereo within a hmd??... I thought that since each eye gets it's own 60hz display the stereo effect could be emulated sufficiently within the unit by alternating displays. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Stereo 3D on an HMD does not use alternating displays like LC shutter glasses use. FPS is important with HMD's because you need the game to play smoothly without any choppiness. So when you play at 800 x 600 with 4x FSAA and 8x AF, and max detail settings. The frame rate (FPS) is going to go down, let's say your getting example 60 FPS without stereo 3D. Now once stereo 3D is enabled then the FPS will be halved at 30 FPS. Now when your looking through an HMD at 30 FPS and because of the picture is so close to your eyes our mind is seeing something so very real, and your going to feel dizzy abd have eye strain because your eyes can't keep up for long periods of time with those FPS. So you need a fast graphics card in order for the FPS for Stereo 3D to be fluid enough like over 40 FPS best is 60+ for best experience, and for that to take effect you must be getting over 120 FPS before stereo 3D is enabled at those resolutions, that i described above. So i hope that's cleared up things | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
dvdbunnyhop, You make a good point that stereo in 800x600 with 4x FSAA may not have a fluid frame rate on a low end graphics card/system. However, as many people in these forums have reported, turning on stereo (regardless of stereo mode) usually does not drop your frame-rate by half. Most people, including myself, see a drop of 20-40% depending on the game. So a medium-grade video card/system might do the job for most games. I have a GF4 ti4600 graphics card, which is now becoming outdated, and tried some recent games in stereo at 800x600 with 4xS FSAA and everything runs smooth. I usually run games in stereo at 1280x960 with 2xQ FSAA which can be *slightly* choppy on the newest games. I plan to upgrade to an overclocked 6800 GT sometime this year . | ||
| Disquieting minds want to know Rating: N/A |
I am always surprised that no one points out that resolution, in this case 800 x 600, can be increased significantly increased by providing a slightly different dither of the image to each eye and relying on human wetware to fuse the images. The obvious application is stereo, particularly in this forum, but a "mono" image providing different images to each eye will appear, to normally sighted folk, to be considerably higher resolution. I suspect you can't just send images lines alternately to one eye and then the other to accomplish this. But I wonder whether studies on the subject have been done. Anyone know? | ||
| Jesper Rating: N/A |
Is FSAA really that necesary when it comes to 3D? I mean there are two pictures combined and therefor are much more smoother in 3D than in 2D even with the FSAA switch off. FSAA takes a big hit to the frame rate in 3D but I haven's seen much of an improvement so I always have it turned it off in 3D. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I just relized that I'm the "anonymous" that Bunny's refering to. 1. Emagin makes both a stereoscopic developers kit as well as a monoscopic kit. If you look at the HMD you'll see there are two (2) jacks inputing into the HMD unit from the buffer/sync box that is hooked to the video card. Now if I were to have two of the mono display cords I could hook each display of the HMD to the two heads on the video card. One to the VGA port and one to the DVI port thru the DVI to VGA adapter that comes with nearly all video cards. I would then go into the registry and select 4 as my stereoscopic display option. Which everyone who knows about dual head stereoscopy is the setting one uses for dual projector passive stereoscopy. Of course frame buffering is done on the card but there is ample room for on yesterdays 128MB cards at 800x600x24 resolution. 2. stereoscopic viewing does not half the framerate. Why? Because the video card is not working twice as hard as some may think. Why? Because the entire scene is being rendered regardless of the players viewpoint. The only difference is the stereo drivers are adding an addition viewpoint to the already rendered scene. that why culling tends not to work with stereoscopy. I'll be happy to explain what culling is to you if need be. 3. This is to answer someone elses question. Refresh rate is how many times the scene is displayed on your monitor each second. Now if the picture is hitting the screen at 60 times a second but due to a low framerate the same picture is displayed 2 times on a row as it would if you had a framerate 30FPS then regardless of the refresh rate you would get jerkiness due to the fact that the scene is only changing 30 times a second. The eye will clearly pick up 30FPS as a jerky motion. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Jesper, Hi. Two jaggy scenes do not make one clearer scene. Like our moms used to tell us "two wrongs don't make a right son". That was usually right before she knocked us in the head as reinforcement for her statement. Antialiasing as you may aready know uses an algorithym that will blend four ajacent pixels on the edge of surfaces to give the appearance of a straiter edge. I've read suggestions about dithering and unfocusing the image to softed up the jaggies. While this would give a higher framerate it would also "muddy up" the entire scene. I bought an ATI 9800pro for $179 for my main monovision gaming as an interim card till the prices on the 6800GT fall to a more reasonable price. My stereo card is a ti4400 that I've tweaked and clocked to a relatively high level. I have no problems playing all but the newest games in stereoscopic with 2x or 4x antialiasing and 8x aniso turned on. John | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
I have to disagree and say that two *different* jaggy scenes do make a single slightly clearer scene. It's usually about on par with 2x. However, sometimes those nasty jaggies are pretty much in the same spots in both scenes, so in those cases stereoscopy doesn't help smooth things at all  . I find that I can't see any benefit in going beyond 2xQ when I'm running stereo at a decent resolution like 1158x864 or 1280x960. If you can get 1600x1200 in stereo, you probably won't need FSAA at all. If I had to use the Emagin at 800x600, I think I would insist on running 8x FSAA to get rid of those big-pixel jaggies! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Try setting your monitor to 800x600 with 4xAA on while using your shutter glasses GianCarlo. That will give you an apples to apples comparison. It will also show you what your card is capable of in stereo with AA on. John | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Yes, I did try this. 4x and stereo takes care of the jaggies OK even in 800x600 but the resolution still bugs me a bit. Everything is a bit fuzzy which I know will mess up the immersive experience a bit. It runs smooth, though. -John | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Now, try to read those gauges on the plane in a flight sim at 800x600. It is next to impossible for me unless I zoom in so the whole gauge fills at least half of the screen. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
it is possible to read, you need to enable virtual cockpit in the game, that is designed for larger field of view and will work perfectly with HMD's and will not be impossible to read | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
That's what I do. I use the ctrl-enter and crtl-bkspc funtions to control the cockpit point of view instead of the + and - keys. I also used paint to mark the instrument cluster at the vertical and horizontal center points of the compass card. Then I painted the 0,90,180, and 270 degrees of the dial red to be better able to check my heading at a glance. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Um...I hate to disappoint, but those jacks you see on the front of the headset aren't for video. They're for the headphone speakers. I'm afraid the OEM kit would be the only way to do a dual input system. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Okay - any nongamers here excited about this thing? I don't game. Found my way here via emagin Yahoo message board. Not much of a tech-head. But --- what I'm excited about is the possibility of opening ,and leaving open, multiple webpages/spreadsheets for instant access. Imagine looking at a proposal and then googling the issue with cache to open a dozen pertinent pages to leave there and scan at your dispoasal as you look through the proposal , your own in house analysis, a related e-mail, some number spreadsheets etc etc etc. Talk about increasing productivity!!! Questions are : how will I select a previously opened screen - will I have to look down at the keyboard or mouse constatntly or is there another way to access and utuilize the mems head tracker for accessing ? What will be the effects on my eyes - fatigue etc etc etc. Thanks feedback. When can i try one | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Darn, Do you think they have different connectors for the single and dual OLEDs? I would thing for ease of production and cost that the connectors for the OLEDs would be the same. The only difference being that for the stereoscopic HMD the cable terminates in a single connector that plugs into the buffer/sync box as opposed to terminating with two VGA connectors. All I could find is a picture of the monoscopic connector here http://emagin.com/pcintkit.htm There doesn't seem to be a picture of the stereoscopic cable on the site. But you probably right. The HMD probably only has one connector for the video input and it's split between the displays within the HMD. It probably wouldn't be cost effective to try and change it. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I plan on using my existing 5.1 surround instead of the HMD's speakers. I do like the microphone though. As 5.1 is already positional I don't think I have to mount the speakers to my swivel chair. Just have to order the 6800GT. I was hoping to wait till it hit the $200 range. Guess I need to work a little harder to cover the cost of both the HMD and video card. John | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
The emagin 3D visor is going to be really cool with flight simulators and roller coaster simulators. It will be amazing to play commanche 4 in stereo 3d, imagine tilting your head to the left, right, up and down, looking all over the cockpit, the depth and level of immersion will be unreal and the same on a roller coaster game. I think first person shooters will be hard as your going to have to do all the aiming by tilting your head, try that on a real hard setting and it willl be so hard to be accurate compared to using the mouse and keyboard. | ||
| ditzil Rating: N/A |
Here it is. Place your orders. http://www.emagin.com/3dvisor/html/order.htm | ||
| brandon Rating: N/A |
in reply to the post about about 5.1 speakers... 5.1 wont work with the way game engines are setup but it could be easily patched.. for example if you use a regular monitor the center speaker is always in relation to the in game camera.. if you face north the sound in front of the camera plays out of the center speaker. If you used a HMD and turned your head 90^ left you would be facing west and the center speaker would play the sound coming from the west but the center speak would be going in you right ear which is facing north. The games sound engine would simply have to be patched to stay in a fixed location and not be camera relative.. that way center speaker would always be north and if you turn facing west north would be in your right ear as its supposed to be.. hope that wasnt too confusing | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Your right. So what I need to do is mount my speakers to my swivel chair. The chair is currently set-up in the middle of the room in front of the projector screen. I've fashioned a small removable desktop that holds my keyboard, mouse and flight controls. All of which are USB and will be wireless soon. I think I'll mount the 5 surround speakers to the chair as well. I have a 24 pin rotating swash plate I can utilize so there wont be a wire tangling issue. Thanks for your input. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I think the 360 degree horizontal FOV hype is ridiculous... Come on! The OLED is not wrapped around your skull. I would like to know the FOV of the displays, not the head tracking degrees of freedom! As for the resolution I play a lot of console games at low resolution, even on my PC I don't play modern games at really high resoltuion because I prefer smooth graphics over choppy good looking graphics. But it really depends upon the game! Some games you do require a high resolution, but not most FPS games. An ideal HMD would feel like I am not wearing anything, and I don't feel like I am sitting in front of a monitor in a dark room by myself!!!! | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
Hey there The emagin z800 as stated on their website has 41 degrees FOV, now that is the largest number as of yet in a consumer HMD. 360 degrees is the term used for head tracking. I think most FPS games need to be played in high resolution, but you don't always need the FSAA and anisotropic filtering. You will be very impressed with the Z800, i certainly am, OLED screens are unbelieveably good, they have great contrast and when viewing them after a while you will feel like your not wearing anything, thats what games do to you, they make you forgot your senses, and in VR it really comes away like that. the HMD weighs only 225grams now thats including headphones, microphone, and head tracker, in the past to have all that you would be nearly wearing about a KG, so trust me this thing is light. from the moment you lay it on you will be immersed in a virtual world. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Yes, at the end of a pdf file in their website it says ~40 degrees diagnol FOV, that is a large number, and the specs of the Z800 impress me. What bothers me is on the product page, it says "360 degree horizontal field of view". I'm not saying emagin is a terrible company for doing this, it's just it always seems to bother me the fact that companies/marketing always twist words around. Like for harddrives 1GB is 1000MB instead of 1024MB, and the whole HMD pixel thing where they would count red green and blue as seperate pixels. Ah, forget it, I'll just have to live with it :P. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Well at least they're consistent on the naming by using Z800 for SVGA 800X600 unlike the VGA Icuiti V920 which could be named the V640. | ||
| ditzil Rating: N/A |
dvd When did you get to try the Z800? | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
hey ditzil, I have not tried the Z800, i sure would like to. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I could not "pre-order" the Z800. I was told I would have to "register to pre-order" and I would be contacted when the unit was "available to pre-order". WTF is that? Not only isn't it shipping but I can't even pre-order. All the company is doing is collecting email addresses so they can SPAM the crap out of us. God save us from these little crap companies that out out PR before they even have a product to ship. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I'm on the list. I'll let you know when the order transaction takes place so I can be ahead of you haha. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Better get an Icuiti V then anonymous. Maybe you can actually officially 'pre-order' one of those. You seem to be big on preordering. Let us know when it arrives won't you. Lol. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Number of pixels for the V920 is misleading on their website. They state 920,000 "pixels" for each eye but VGA has only 307,200 pixels. Isn't this false and misleading marketing? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
They're probably counting individual green, red, and blue pixels. 307,200 x 3 = 921,600. Typical marketing bullshit for the HMD market. | ||
| dvdbunnyhop Rating: N/A |
emagin are going to be at E3, i just checked the exhibitor list on E3 website, look here: http://www.e3expo.com/exhibitors/exhibitor_list.asp Also there is some talk of another emagin product known as 'binocular head-mounted display and head-leg-weapon motion-tracking system by eMagine' Also emagin have got some new pdf on their site read it here, by the way it is a pdf by clicking on the link it will automatically open up the file: http://emagin.com/pressreleases/pr021405.pdf | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
any recent news on this? I'm dying!! :D | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Who is ordering the Z800? http://64.226.227.149/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code=Z3V | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
No me. They haven't improve the res a bit. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sure . I ordered one. Taking credit card info. At least that's a good sign. Don't think resolution is going to be as important as some other considerations as far as this visor is concerned. But that's just my opinion. Hey - if you think it's not enough , hope they have them available for demo somewhere someday soon and check it out for yourself instead of just writing it off. Anyway,higher resolution model probably be out next year I hope. Just throw this one one ebay , and trade up. Tired of waiting. Sit around waiting for a holodeck or something , and well ..you'll just sit around I guess haha. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I have just recieved the z800 yesterday and I put it through its paces with both games and movies. DvD viewing with it is very nice and I could find many situations where I would love to have it for that. The gaming was too unpolished for my tastes as the resolution is still a little to low. On top of that the optics used in it need improvement since any way you position them you will still have some part of the screen blurred. They say it has a built in microphone and it came with a cable for the mic but I have found no evidence on the unit itself of one. I dont have the required NVidia video card to support the stereo 3d however I would guess that it's is pretty cool. One day I will upgrade to be able to use it hopefully. Suggestions to emagin would be to make the sweet spot for blur free images alot larger, and of course as they already know the resolution must go up. All in all the DvD viewing is great for people who either travel or just like privacy. The gaming aspect is really hurt in the resolution and optics department. All it needs is higher resolution and upgraded optical lenses and it would then be truly immersive for gaming. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
anonymous, just move the visor closer to your face. It pivots on both ends of that little metal bar, but I had the same problem at first with blurriness around the edges until I realized it was adjustable. bigpat | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The design of the headset and viewing pieces only allows the lenses to get so close before it touches your nose and gets uncomfortable. Would have been better to nix the hard plastic edges around the eye pieces and allow for a closer fit. That would help to eliminate the discomfort while allowing for a clearer image. If I fold the viewing pieces away from the head mounting harness and press the viewing pieces closer to my eyes I get a perfect undistorted view of the screen making it very clear and impressive. It's not able to get that close with the current design of the head harness and Lense cases. I can only describe the feeling of having the actual lense and surrounding plastic touching the area surrounding my eye. As similar to pressing a hard plastic lego brick with shap edges against my face. I have actually thought about modifying the eye piece casings and even the head harness to allow for a more ergonomic and form fitting diplay unit. But that would void the warranty and possibly damage the unit itself. The only hope is for Emagin to design a sleeker, less jagged edged, and form fitting unit so that everyone can achieve a perfect level of clarity rather than having to deal with one side of the image being blurred. Daniel | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
just a quick hello and congratulations to your nice website ! i'll visit you again! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Great site guys, please let me know if you are interested in exchanging links with us. | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
I like that you can move the optics right up to your eye if you want. That they allow so many adjustments is a good idea don't you think. | ||
| Reticuli Rating: N/A |
You guys are totally wrong about the Emagin HMD being true 800 x 600. Testing your monitor out at that resolution with AA on is not going to give you a representative of what the Emagin looks like at all. It uses 3 pixels for each color. That means the real world resolution with full color graphics is one third of 800 x 600. For instance, Lock On: Modern Air Combat has an 800 x 600 mode just for this display, but it does not in fact run at that resolution in practice and produces all sorts of bugs. Not until someone makes a true 640 x 480 HMD will I buy one. If a truly 800X600 unit was ever made, it'd have a resolution better than the $100,000 Kaiser military models...not very likely. | ||
| Reticuli Rating: N/A |
Oh, and I honestly think the 3D thing is secondary to the resolution, full color, and eye-fixed headtracking. I'd be fully willing to give up the 3D stereo vision if the rest of it worked. | ||
| Reticuli Rating: N/A |
The VFX-1 also admittedly had a more ergonomic, comfortable design, though it weighed more. I heard of people using eyecups for cameras on those eyepieces with great results. The Emagin design is to "cybersavy" and Japanese to be truly useful. | ||
| Mr_N Rating: N/A |
Reticuli, It is true 800X600 color since it has 1,440,000 red/green/blue subpixels that make the 800X600 full color pixels. They list it as a 800(x3)X600 so it's not a third of the SVGA resolution as you state. It is true SVGA color. http://www.emagin.com/html/svga3d.htm | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
I think Mr_N is right. On the website it say's, "800 x 600 triads". The word to look at is "triads". Every pixel on the screen is a triad, and we all know that(Tri) is 3, so every Pixel on the screen, or a better word for it would be "pixel triad", is made with 3 sub pixels that makes up one triad. | ||
| Akemi Rating: N/A |
Reticuli, LOMAC as well as many other games work fine with my z800 at 800x600 and 3D stereo enabled. I have a 7800gtx with Forceware 78.01 driver. | ||
| Reticuli Rating: N/A |
You're right about the 800X600 resolution. It is the true usable res. That one guy with the VR headset site got it wrong. Akemi, you're using LOMAC with the Z800 in 3D and can read all the dials and HUD fine? You should write up a big review of it. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
I am sure he can read the dials and hud fine as long as he zooms in so the screen covers just one dial or just the hud. | ||
| Shigawire Rating: N/A |
LOMAC 1.2 Black Shark will support 6DOF, so you will be able to: move your head forward to look closer at your instruments, tilt your head left/right, move your head up or left to look beyond the instrument panels or even bob your head outside the window (useful for old ww2 planes where you can't see shit).. IL2 doesn't support 6DOF yet, but Battle of Britain, Oleg Maddox' next sim will certainly support it. There's a video showing this in effect using the TrackIR 4 Pro with LOMAC 1.2 Black Shark. It looks absolutely amazing... http://media.naturalpoint.com/video/games/LockOn-BlackShark-6DOF-Demo.wmv And Z800 supports 6DOF as well.. I just hope Andrey Chizh will support this product and its antecedents, instead of just supporting Track IR.. In the worst case scenario, maybe Z800 can emulate TrackIR support.. |
