| Author | Message | ||
     JoelDaniels Rating: N/A |
I need a little help. I am buying a used projector for use with TV and video games, through a PC connection. I would like to be able to watch movies and play games in stereo vision and also have more than one person be able to participate in the viewing. Does anyone have any cheap ideas, around $250. Thanks for your time. JoelDaniels | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
You say nothing about the projector you buy. If it is a LCD you have no chance or you must buy 2 of them. If it is an CRT you have no problem, it could be used with normal shutterglasses in the same way as monitor .. | ||
| Slava Rating: N/A |
Anaglyph may work. | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
I use anaglyphs with my LCD projector ... no games support anyway ... Be carefull about CRT, aspect some ghosting if you're not going to change the green tube for stereo imaging. DLP may work (at least for TV) | ||
| Christoph Bungert (Admin) Rating: N/A |
>>> I use anaglyphs with my LCD projector ... no games support anyway ... Wicked3D eyeSCREAM light supports anaglyph. C. | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Sorry, I've forgotten right now things are changing ... Giorgio. (where can I download something smaller than a 50 Mb game demo to test eyeSCREAM light?) | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Sorry again, do you think I can aspect eyeSCREAM light to work with an ACER notebook featuring ATI RAGE MOBILITY graphic chipset (this graphic card isn't included in their list but they assume this driver to work with every graphic card)? Thanks. | ||
| Slava Rating: N/A |
I suggest you download the demo version and try it, although it may not work. I tried it on Compaq Armada (also with some ATI Rage Mobility kind of chip inside) and it would not run (well, it ran, but apparently in some sort of software emulation mode with hardware acceleration disabled). I suspect it should run on GeForce Go chip though. | ||
| Jeff Orwick Rating: N/A |
Can somebody tell me where this rumor originates that you can't use a LCD based projector for 3-D PC Games? What specifically is supposed to be the problem? I understand why it won't work with LCD displays, as the light coming of them is polarized, but as long as you are using a matte screen (not silver) the light is depolarized as it reflects and works fine with shutter glasses. Not perfect, not spectacular, but okay. I have a Sony VPL-VW10HT LCD projector and I-art glasses, and aside from a bit of aliasing, I really haven't had a problem. I am using the 3D revelator page flipping driver and running the projector in HDTV mode (720p) (You do need to make the 3-D effect much smaller when projecting on a 7 foot wide screen) I admit the effect isn't as nice as when I use my Monitor punched up to 120 Hz, (The Sony's Max refresh rate is 85hz) but then, you take what you can get and what I get ain't that bad. BTW, the I-art IR controller can be used with multiple glasses. | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Hi Jeff, are you using an LCd projector with shutterglasses? How can it work? The max refresh of the LCD matrix inside is about 30 Hz even if the projector can accep a signal up to 120 Hz. Can we have more details about your projector? Maybe the technical sheet? Hi Slava, my ATI Rage Mobility can use HW OpenGL only in 16-bit color depth. This is due to the customed driver by ACER but I aspect it may be the same for the COMPAQ driver too. Have you tried all different color depth running GLPanorama (for example, with a right-click on the image you can choose System-Info and you'll know if you are running HW or SW OpenGL). Please, let me know - I'm trying to make my ATI Rage Mobility work with HW OpenGL. | ||
| Jeff Orwick Rating: N/A |
Hi Giorgio, Yes its a LCD projector. I am using shutter-glasses. The specs for the projector can be found here: http://www.sonydisplaysystems.com/display/images/links/v11062.pdf Perhaps the difference stems from the fact that these are Sony custom made 16:9 aspect LCD panels. Maybe Sony designed them with a higher refresh rate? Like I said, this doesn't work stellar, and I do get some ghosting with high-contrast scenes, and there is flicker,(HDTV just runs at 60HZ-- unfortunately 720P is the only way to use the wide screen panels on this puppy)but overall what I see is definitely in 3D. Unreal is quite playable and the 3D effect satisfying (the actual separation of the images is small-- mostly because the image is 7 feet across and I am sitting 5 feet away) So is the theory here that shutter glasses and LCD projectors don't work perfect together (not like a flickerless, ghost free image using a good monitor at 120 hz) , or they just don't work at all (I shouldn't be able to see any type of 3D image at all - or at least one so bad that I couldn't possibly play a game using it?) Page-flipping seems to work okay. I can't really try an interlaced image, since the drivers want to sync-double and the projector only goes to 85hz. -Jeff | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Jeff, I've checked the data sheet of your projector. I cannot see any HW difference fom mine (SONY VPL-CS1). The only obvious thing is that your projector is an high-end one while my projector is an entry-level consumer one (I spent less that USD 2500). Sorry I've no way to see your projector working (it's not distributed for the italian market) but what you say is worth to update our knowledge about LCD projection system: drop a line to Christopher! Maybe a DLP projector would be cheaper and work even better, anyone knows? | ||
| Jeff Orwick Rating: N/A |
Hi Giorgio, Does the VPL-CS1 also use the wide aspect panels? I really bought the 10HT for Home Theater, and connected the computer just to see if it would work. (The Price is coming down BTW--its now around $4500) I did a little playing with the projector last night. The 10HT has modes for computer, composite, and RGB HDTV. Since the 10HT has a firmware bug that forces Computer inputs into 4:3 mode, I have my computer set up to use a resolution that mimics 720p and I put the projector into hi-def mode. SO I tried putting it back to computer and 1024X768 to see what happens. It would appear the the assumption that the panels drive at a certain rate is true. As I changed the refresh rate given to the projector, I would get more or less ghosting. However, this ghosting was definitely caused by the Left/Right images being periodically out of sync with what the projector dsiplayed. A display at 60Hz seemed to result in the most stable picture, but since we are essentially adding two sine waves, the timing would be perfect for about 4 seconds, and then float out for 4 seconds and the float back. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to change the timings in real time while I am watching the image, unless it is in a window--and then Windows essentially refreshes the window at a different rate than when it is full screen. I am pretty sure if I muck with timings around 60Hz, I will probably be able to get a very stable image. So, its probably true that most LCD projectors won't work in this fashion, and even if they do you still won't be able to go above 60Hz with the panels. I'll write Christopher a note. Cheers! -Jeff | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Hi Jeff, the VPL-CS1 have common 4:3 LCD panels. I think you are right. We can say even your projector doesn't fit stero imaging ... but, at least, you can play with it in stereo. The VPL-CS1 has a very low refresh rate (about 30 Hz I think), sending it an interlaced video you'll be able to see both picture interlaced at the same time even if you wear shutterglasses. 60 Hz isn't too much but it's worth a note and some more testing. Thanks, Giorgio. | ||
| Christoph Bungert (Admin) Rating: N/A |
Jeff, so you connected the VGA-output of the PC to the RGB-HDTV-video-input? This way you achieved the best results? What happens if you use the VGA-input? The composite-video-input should work the best. I know that certain DLP-projectors work fine with TV-shutterglasses over the video-input, since they stay in sync under video. We just bought a newer LCD-projector at the office and it seems to be in sync with the video-input. The 50 Hz PAL flicker is quite annoying. Haven't tried it with glasses yet. Christoph | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Christoph, seems to me anyone here can use LCD projector for stereo video! You say "The PAL flicker is annoying" meaning it works! What kind of LCd projector have you bought? My VPL-CS1 connected to a VHS interlaced tape doesn't work at all: wearing shutterglasses I can see both images interlaced (I think because of the low refresh rate of the LCD matrix inside the projector). If we go on speaking this way I aspect someone to tell us he's using shutterglasses with an LCD-monitor. :-) | ||
| Jeff Orwick Rating: N/A |
Hi Christoph, Yes I am using a VGA D-sub to 5 connector RGBHV breakout cable. The projector comes with multiple modes for each of the inputs. One mode is "computer" in which the signal is locked to a 4:3 aspect ratio. Another is HDTV, which locks the image to 16:9, but you have to use a HDTV resolution to get this mode to work (720p, 1080i). So you use the same physical input with different settings for different signals. I have an older Nvidia TNT2 video card, so I don't have any other outputs from it (and I don't have any other 3-D material -- at least not yet) I use a program called Powerstrip 3 {http://www.entechtaiwan.com) to generate the 720p custom resolution So in HDTV 720p mode the sync is perfect. In "computer" mode, the sync drifts. As I use powerstrip to change the sync rate, the drift gets worse/better. Powerstrip allows me to change the sync in very small increments, but I have to get bounce in/out of Unreal (a slow process since I use a Celeron 466) to check the 3-d effect. Basically the effect is minimized using rates around 60Hz. The best I have achieved is a drift where sync is perfect for 4 seconds and then drifts out (almost switching eyes) for another 4 seconds. Small changes from this point will probably eventually lead me to a "golden" sync rate (the actual Sync rate of the panels to within a few microseconds. ) Bottom line, the "video" theory is probably correct. In order to get a perfect sync without a lot of work, using a video singal (regular or HDTV) will probably yield the best results. Like I said, I have no way of testing a composite or S-video source with this material, but I would assume it would behave similarly. Cheers! -Jeff | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
I've uploaded two very small (22kb each) AVI test files at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scpf/files/ Each of them is composed of 50 frames, check them frame by frame: a very simple black square in moving left on a with background. 50f@50fps means that the black square takes 1 sec to reach the right side, 50f@100fps means that the black square takes 1/2 sec to reach the right side. Show them in repeat mode on your LCD projector: if the LCD matrix it's fast enough to delete the previous square when drawing the next one, you'll see ONLY ONE SQUARE not something like the wake of a boat. If it happens showing 50f@50fps you have an LCD projector with at least a refresh rate of 50 Hz, if it happens showing 50f@100fps you have an LCD projector with at least a refresh rate of 100 Hz. Of course you need your graphic card to be fast enough: check in Statitics you are not missing frames. Another thing: we have to take into account that image on the retina of your eye. This image moves when you move your head, so try to move up and down your head watching the video: what moves is just the previous square on your retina (don't take care of it!), what doesn't move is the previous square on the LCD matrix. I hope you'll understand me, sorry for my bad english. Giorgio. | ||
| Jeff Orwick Rating: N/A |
Hi Giorgio I will give them a try. (Your english is fine. I understand what you mean) -Jeff | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Jeff, If you dont mind me asking, where did you find the Sony projector for $4500? I admit I haven't looked too hard, but that seems to be a very good price! Thanks, |
