| Author | Message | ||
     Puppet Kite Kid Rating: N/A |
I have been posting my results from this experimentation at the two Yahoo groups that I usually keep up with, the Photo3D group and the 3D Video group, but since this may be really important information, I want to spread it to the Anaglyph group and the Stereo3D forum, too. I have never been able to do this in the past, so somehow I have gotten around previous errors that kept it from working... I will include my last two messages, (1) and (2), to the first two groups, here: 1) Throw away those shutterglasses. I can't see the difference between this revised anaglyph conversion and shutterglasses images with everything I've tested so far... I spent all morning figuring this out... somehow, although some of us had tried this a year or more ago, I am now able to make a shade corrected half color anaglyph into an interlaced JPEG with no color bleeds, ghosting, or other problems commonly associated with anaglyphs. We had to have been making mistakes, before, and were unable to *crack* the method. Use StereoPhoto Maker http://www3.zero.ad.jp/esuto/stphmkr/index_e.htm and page-flip this, wearing red-cyan glasses: http://www.puppetkites.net/temp/harbor_IntA.jpg That is my only "test image" at this moment... but it's good enough to use to compare shutterglasses to red-cyan glasses. Just use it for that purpose. It's only a screenshot of an MPEG 2... I know how to make them, now, but I need to compile all the steps, go back into VirtualDub, and output a BMP, then convert it to JPEG in Photoshop, instead of doing it this way. Notice a couple of things about opening it in StereoPhoto Maker. You can separate the red and cyan sides out to parallel or crossed view to check the integrity of the lines, and the lack of ghosting, etc. I will give you enough info to get a head start, at the end of this message. You can also just view the image as is, but, page-flipping really shows it's potential, as it eliminates the brightness problem associated with interlaced images. Turn your monitor brightness up to help, if you are viewing it interlaced... not needed for page-flipping. If you are viewing it on a standard TV, treat it exactly like a field sequential 3D image. It's identical. Using Ron Labbes method of projection, you should be able to demux this format from a DVD to two projectors. To do this conversion, follow the instructions on my webpage, http://www.puppetkites.net/virtualdub3d.htm , but make these changes: When you apply the "Interlaced RGB" filter, instead of choosing "Clone R" in the even lines and "Clone G and B" in the odd lines, you choose "Cancel G and B" in the even lines, and "Cancel R" in the odd lines. That's all there is to it. Remember also to put a check in the "interlaced" box in the resize filter when you resize the video. Output it as a BMP, then convert it to JPEG with a good compression engine like the one in Photoshop. Any of them should work, but Photoshop is one of the best. IrfanView freeware should work, too. The lossy compression shouldn't destroy the interlace lines, in this case, believe it or not... it will only degrade the overall image quality. Let me know how you do :-) 2) Use StereoPhoto Maker http://www3.zero.ad.jp/esuto/stphmkr/index_e.htm and page-flip this, wearing red-cyan glasses: http://www.puppetkites.net/temp/harbor_IntA.jpg One last thing, for now... I am getting identical results with an interlaced anaglyph MPEG 2 in StereoMovie Maker as an interlaced anaglyph JPEG in StereoPhoto Maker, so I will share this screenshot with both groups. http://www.puppetkites.net/temp/harbor_IntA_SPMscreenshot.jpg That is the interlaced JPEG from the top of this message loaded into StereoPhoto Maker and viewed as a parallel image. That separates the colors to left and right images, and shows that the idea works. Here's a trick... look at that image with a mirrored stereoscope or freeview it _while wearing_ red-cyan glasses. You can do it without the anaglyph glasses, too, but you will get a slight bit of retinal rivalry. The glasses somehow decode the colors perfectly. Red-blue glasses will creat an overall bluish cast. Red-green ones will create an overall greenish cast. What you will see is identical to how it looks page-flipped. BTW, I am seeing no flicker when page-flipping it at 85 Hz. I think the anaglyph glasses are actually better in that way than shutterglasses for some reason. Weird :-) Also, this *idea* has got to work on any display, including LCD, plazma, etc... The interlaced image, as is in the top interlaced original image, should look identical to this at 100%. To "page-flip", all you'd have to do is alternate images fast enough to avoid flicker. Fast computers will soon that make possible, if it isn't already :-) :-) :-) -- P. K. Kid 3D Adventures Of The Puppet Kite Kid: (All G-Rated) http://www.PuppetKites.net | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What does this mean in plain english? Can u plz expain to a newbie? It takes away ghosting and I don't need shutterglasses? Can I use a TV, why do I need two projectors? | ||
| Puppet Kite Kid Rating: N/A |
Sorry, I'm throwing a bunch of things at you at once... I'm not sure how many ways this "interlaced anaglyph" idea will help, as I still need to try it in a bunch of different ways, but for now, I can say almost for sure that as far as video goes, these things are true: You can make compliant anaglyph DVD's (with the same file format as we all buy at the local retailer). Basically, because the anaglyph color information is stored in even and odd lines, with no bleeding over of colors caused by making the MPEG, it can be *treated* just like a field sequential 3D video... but you use red-cyan glasses instead of shutterglasses. The only way that I have ever tried to make a DVD anaglyph is with a "progressive" conversion, not an interlaced one... with a progressive anaglyph, all the anaglyph colors, especially in the red channel, is destroyed by the MPEG encoding. This, I think, is why the few DVD anaglyphs that people have looked at are so terrible. You won't need any additional "decoding" hardware or software. Unlike above/below formats, or even field sequential 3D for shutterglasses, you should be able, in many (yet unknown, how many and which ones) situations, to view the interlaced anaglyph as it is on the DVD... it works on my CRT TV, but I don't know yet if it will work on a non-CRT TV of any kind... hopefully someone can go through the process and tell us :-) An MPEG 2 of the same thing (that's the actual video that's on the DVD) on a computer will also be able to be viewed in a number of ways... but this is nothing helpful to most of us, as we already know how to convert any 3D video to any other 3D format. Being able to make a ghost-free, retinal-rivalry-free anaglyph DVD for distribution and viewing "as is", is probably the biggest potential. If it works on LCD and other progressive displays, it will _really_ be a great format... that's an unknown at this point. The interlaced lines have to remain intact for it to work. PKK | ||
| Puppet Kite Kid Rating: N/A |
To address your question about the projectors, the "Ron Labbe" system I referred to (because he's one guy that I am aware of that uses this system) is simply playing an interlaced field sequential 3D DVD in a DVD player and using a demultiplexer to split the lines out to a left and right projector. He uses a polarized system, I think, but with the interlaced anaglyph, if it works, you would only need a non-silvered screen and a pair of red-cyan glasses. This might work with one projector by just projecting the interlaced anaglyph straight from the DVD... another unknown at this point. PKK | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Can you translate this proces with 2 layers in photoshop and how to change the channels values?. I tried your method but is not working, looks like very light and no contrast. JB | ||
| Puppet Kite Kid Rating: N/A |
I don't think you can make an interlaced anaglyph with Photoshop, unless maybe there's a plugin out there somewhere. It will require some sort of an interlaced filter. Maybe I'm overlooking something? Let me know. VirtualDub is the only way that I know of, because of the special 3rd party filters that were written... but you would think that it's possible with something else... but maybe not. You can load BMP's into VirtualDub, export them with "save image sequence", then encode them to JPEG with Photoshop. I'm not sure if using this format for still images has much use, other than for experimentation or demonstration via screenshots, but maybe it does. The main purpose of it is to be able to make anaglyph DVD's (or MPEG 2's) with "shutterglasses quality" imagery. I'll take another look at Photoshop and see what I can find. There was an interlaced screen floating around on the internet, but I'm not sure what that could do. BTW, the goal is one field (one set of lines) has to be cyan and the other field, red, with no color bleed from one to the other after lossy compression. If you can do that, then it works. It works only in VirtualDub, as far as I know, so far. PKK | ||
| Puppet Kite Kid Rating: N/A |
http://www.eyeball-design.com/gfx_tutorial09.htm Here's that "interlace" file, if you want to play with it. And, silly me, I just said that I don't see a good use for an interlaced anaglyph JPEG. I am am willing to eat my own words... Everything that applies to the MPEG, applies to the JPEG, so of course it is a good thing... although, I'm not sure how many viewing options there are. MPEG's can use any DVD player... I'm not sure of how many native viewing JPEG options there are. Try it and see, I guess. They do work great in StereoPhoto Maker, especially page-flipped. Looks "better than shutterglasses" to my son... the same, to me. I tried to understand why my son said that, and it must have something to do with the way the image is resampled to full screen or something. He said there's less "distortion" in the anaglyphs. He must be talking about resizing artifacts... PKK | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
To do interlaced work in any photo or video editing package is easy. Just use the 'masking' concept. i.e. use a mask that is just made up of the required amt of hrizontal lines, spaced 1 pixel apart. Then you can paste into or composite into just the set of scanlines you require. I have been doing this for 10years on everything from premiere, to 3D Studio, to photoshop etc. Just create youself two scanline bitmaps and use them as masks. Which is what the file in the previous post is. | ||
| Puppet Kite Kid Rating: N/A |
If you get a chance, I'd like to see those steps. It would be handy to have another way to do it. The only easy way I know to make an "interlaced anaglyph" is with VirtualDub... although if you convert your stereo pair into a red-left and right-cyan image, which is probably "doable" with a number of software programs, you could just feed them to any 3D program that creates "interleaved" or "interlaced" 3D images. You'll have to save them in a lossless format, or a lossy format that doesn't mix the channels, like anything above Q7 JPEG export in Photoshop, and at 720 x 480, to watch them on an interlaced NTSC TV... also, you'll probably have to make them into an MPEG 2 slide show, as I bet most of those "slide show DVD making" programs that are on the shelf these days, will either deinterlace them or resize them!!! I'll betcha an antique stereo card on that! PKK | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
nice site indeed |
